< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Jan-01-12|| ||Once: <stacase> Here's the position just before 20. Rxf6|
click for larger view
The point is that the black king is stalemated. Any unanswerable check will be mate. So after 20. Rxf6 gxf6 21. Ne4 we get this position:
click for larger view
White is now threatening 22. Nxf6# And there is not much that black can do about it. The only piece that can protect f6 is the queen. But if 21...Qe7 black has to abandon the protection of the c6 pawn. Then white crashes through with 22. Qxc6+
click for larger view
However black responds white wins the rook on a8.
|Jan-01-12|| ||morfishine: <LoveThatJoker> On your comment <I must respectfully say that there is no way that you "saw" the sidelines, but did not care to write them down> You are correct. There is no way I saw "all" the sidelines. I should've been more specific: I was satisfied that <18.e5> was the first move and that <18...dxe5> was best for Black. The "sidelines" I was referring to stem from that continuation. |
For example, I saw that after <21...Ne4> (following the actual game-score starting with 18.e5 dxe5) <22.Bd5> is the only way to close the d-file to prevent 22.Nxf6 mate. To me this falls into the category of a "no-brainer" which allows the instantaneous 22...Rxd5.
New Year's Resolution: Be Specific
Nice work and great way to start off the Year! :)
|Jan-01-12|| ||gofer: The pawn push seems to be a good way to go. It threatens exf6+ and exd6+, so cannot be ignored. If it is taken white plays Qc5+ and then Rxf6
at which point Ne4 seems to be very strong!
<18 e5 ...>
18 ... dxe5 19 Qc5+ Ke8 20 Rxf6! gxf6 21 Ne4 Bd5 22 Rxd5!
<18 ... Ne8>
<19 exd6+ ...>
19 ... Qxd6 20 Qh4+ g5 21 Rxd6 gxh4 22 Rxc6
<19 ... Nxd6>
At this stage white could simply win a pawn with Qxg7, but equally could pin the knight with Qc5. I have looked at both lines and find
nothing conclusive, so I have given up... ...only to see that Black never played Ne8! Silly-billy...
<Happy New Year All!>
|Jan-01-12|| ||morfishine: <LoveThatJoker> Why don't we continue this discussion over at my forum? I think it would be beneficial to discuss such topics as (1) What constitutes getting a POTD right, partially-right or not-at-all (2) Analysts motivations (3) Analysts styles (4) Solver's solution or Solver's solutions? (5) Alternative lines (6) "Line-Busting"|
I'm always on the lookout for ways to improve in the area of analysis. :)
|Jan-01-12|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 18.e5. (If takes, Qc5+, bash on f6 and then Ne4. ) Don't even need Fritz for this one. |
I have a couple of books of Nezh's games, probably seen this somewhere before.
IMO, not really an "insane" puzzle, not like some Sunday's, when I am only guessing, and not analyzing. However, thanks to the CG staff for an entertaining puzzle.
Happy New Year everyone!!! :)
|Jan-01-12|| ||WannaBe: <<<ANNOUNCEMENT>>> |
The Annual Caissar Award is now open for Nominee submission (boy, that don't sound very 'family oriented'... =)
Here are the categories, you don't have to nominate in every category:
<Best Avatar>, <Best Profile>, <Best Game Collection>, <Best Historian>, <
Best Username/Handle>, <Best Written Post>, <Funniest Kibitzer>, <Most Constructive>, <Best Informed>, <Most Helpful>, <Best Analysis>
Please, <<Post your nomination(s) in my forum, Click on the Wabbit Avatar>>. For I am too lazy to run all over the place to collect them.
Nomination will end on Sunday, Jan. 8th, 11:59PM, Eastern Time Zone.
|Jan-01-12|| ||Ratt Boy: First time I've ever gotten a Saturday and a Sunday in a row. It's nice of ChessGames to throw in a couple of easy ones for the Noo Year, to try to convince this old patzer that he knows something about the game, butt you can't BS a BSer.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||chrisowen: Opening dfile looks essential I combed over baddest milk |
fudger rf6 and nd5 on two turn stable equality and plus for
black so goes off 18.e5! queen gest assured entrance point
after dxe c5+ ke8 rxf6 gxf6 ne4.
|Jan-01-12|| ||chrisowen: Yet have been swept away it is in by good analysis proved that |
I was right. Lots of high brow I felt the look in sweeping e6
lot should prove decisive. Rashid must have had bean to pick
with Sergievsky I plead the case d6 too slow allowing Russian
IM chance for capitalising his gains gains thinking be6 also
bad. Ne8 proves stiffer resistance.
Happy New Year!
|Jan-01-12|| ||agb2002: This puzzle looks familiar.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||maxi: This game reminds me of Tal vs Tringov, 1964, played two years before.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||Patriot: I tried to quickly solve this and failed. My candidates included 18.Rxf6, 18.e5, and 18.Nd5+.|
The one that is least likely to succeed--18.Nd5+, since there are multiple ways of capturing the knight.
After 18.e5, I thought simply 18...dxe5 and then what? How about a check? This is a case of not giving a strong candidate a fair chance. My goal is to look at least 3-ply to see if forcing candidates still exist (check, captures, or threats). If there wasn't a forcing candidate after 18...dxe5 then I would be right to dismiss it quickly.
I settled on 18.Rxf6. It's an interesting candidate since first of all, it's a capture, and second it offers another threat in the sequence: 18...gxf6 19.Rf1. But that's not why I settled on it. The odd 19.Nd5+ is why but I only counted on 19...cxd5 (there is also 19...Bxd5). 19...cxd5 is the first move to consider as the strongest since it may just be winning a piece for nothing. So 20.cxd5 Bd7 or 20...Bc8 followed by 21.Rf1. It's kind of interesting but white has to prove he is getting compensation for a piece and the exchange and I don't think he is.
To say the least, it is very clumsy analysis.
|Jan-01-12|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Material is even, with white having the better development (centralized Q and both rooks on semi-open files) and safer king position. Black's king, caught in the middle, is the target. General principles are a good guide in positions like this. With a mobility advantage and a vulnerable king to work against, it will pay white to open lines. Another consideration is the color of the defending bishop - dark square weakness is evident at d6 and the a3-f8 diagonal. After quickly coming up with e5 and Rxf6 as feasible candidates, I decided on |
The natural move is best. Tactically flawed is 18.Rxf6?? gxf6 19.Rf1 Qa7.
A) 18... dxe5 19.Qc5+ Ke8 20.Rxf6! gxf6 21.Ne4! Qe7 (Bd5 21.Rxd5 wins) 22.Qxc6+ wins (LPDO @ a8).
A.1) 21... Bd7 22.Nxf6+ wins
A.2) 21... Qa7 (and most other) 22.Nxf6#
B) 18... Nd5 19.exd6+ Qxd6 20.Ne4! Qc7 (or b8/d7/d8) 21.Qc5+ Ke8 (or d7/d8) 22.c4 wins a piece (N moves 23.Nf6#)
B.1) 19... Kxd6 20.Ne4+ Ke7 (Kd7 21.c4 wins piece) 21.Qc5+ K moves 22.c4 is similar to main line.
C) 18... Ne8 (best) 19.ed6+ Qxd6 20.Qh4+ g5 21.Rxd6 gxh4 22.Rxc6 and white is effectively 2 pawns ahead with more active pieces.
C.1) 19... Nxd6 20.Qxg7 Rag8 (to connect rooks) 21.Qf6+ Ke8 (Kf8? 22.Qxe6) 22.Bh5 Qe7 23.Qe5 Nc8 (Rg5 24.Qxh8+) 24.Ne4 Kf8 25.Nf6! Rg5 26.Nd7+ followed by Qxh8+ wins.
In C.1, 20.Qc5 pinning the knight also looks strong, but Qxg7 wins a pawn and further weakens the king's shelter at no risk.
Time for review....
|Jan-01-12|| ||vajeer: <CHESSTTCAMPS:>
18....Ne8 certainly appears to be Black's best move. In your line C1
after 19. exd6+ Nxd6
Black can play 20...Nf5
and white has only 21 Qg4 to save the Queen upon which 21...Ne3 wins the exchange for Black.
I am not sure how white can get decisive advantage in all the Ne8 lines.
|Jan-01-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <morfishine> And that's where the variations after 18. e5 play a huge importance, man!|
18. e5 dxe5 is not as strong as 18. e5 Ne8. Trust me. 18...Ne8 is Black's best try!
That being said, that doesn't excuse the fact that I missed the game continuation!
|Jan-01-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: < <morfishine> <LoveThatJoker> Why don't we continue this discussion over at my forum? I think it would be beneficial to discuss such topics as (1) What constitutes getting a POTD right, partially-right or not-at-all (2) Analysts motivations (3) Analysts styles (4) Solver's solution or Solver's solutions? (5) Alternative lines (6) "Line-Busting"
I'm always on the lookout for ways to improve in the area of analysis. :)>|
Well said, morfishine! I also feel kinship with what you've said! I will most definitely go to your forum and join in with you on these topics that you have brought up. I will pop in on Tuesday to say hi at your Forum.
|Jan-01-12|| ||BOSTER: First what attracts my attention was the white pawn structure.|
Note the economic expens of pawn material by white.
Certainly this structure reminds the famous game Morphy vs Duke of Braunshweig and company.
This is Bronstein's opinion:
"During many years all the best players in the world have measured and evaluated their creative efforts against this standart by Morphy".
Everybody has own opinion about a <beaty, and brilliance>.
<Dr.J> <For a sunday,this was straightforward logic. There was <NO> real brilliance>.
My opinion that <POTD> radiates the such sabtle beauty, that even the solution is not very difficult, I'd not say <there was no real brilliance>.
But everything is a matter of taste.
Happy New Year!
|Jan-01-12|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Play the puzzle position against Crafty from using the following link: |
18....Ne8 certainly appears to be Black's best move. In your line C1 after 19. exd6+ Nxd6
Black can play 20...Nf5
and white has only 21 Qg4 to save the Queen upon which 21...Ne3 wins the exchange for Black >
20....Nf5 is a good suggestion that I did not consider. Your last point is not quite right though, after 21... Ne3, white has 22.Qh4+.
In any case, Crafty goes straight into my main line C. Good luck and have fun!
|Jan-01-12|| ||TheBish: Nezhmetdinov vs V Sergievsky, 1966|
White to play (18.?) "Insane"
The only thing that makes sense is 18. e5! and now:
A) 18...Ne8 19. exd6+ Qxd6 (or 19...Nxd6 20. Qxg7 wins a pawn) 20. Qh4+ g5 21. Rxd6 gxh4 22. Rxc6 with a winning endgame (passed c-pawn).
B) 18...dxe5 19. Qc5+ Ke8 20. Rxf6! gxf6 21. Ne4 Qe7 (forced) 22. Qxc6+, winning.
Not too insane after all!
|Jan-01-12|| ||stacase: <Once> Thanks for the explanation. I saw some of that, and I realized that not every line led to a immediate mate. Loss of material does win games, but as the swindle by Black a few days ago illustrated, it isn't necessarily so. If this were my game to win, I'd be feeling my way rather than confidently forcing Black's defeat.|
|Jan-01-12|| ||stst: The most effective move is not hard to find, but the subsequent line is not easy to chart out the details.
18.e5 will put Bk in a very awkward position, leaving dxe5 the only choice (for any other move will give 19.exf6+ and eventually fxg7 to promote.)
Almost from 20 on it's a matter of taste for W, and Bk's position is cramped.
|Jan-02-12|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 18.?
Equaql both sides
e5 kept drawing my attention, yet I tried Rxf6 as well, the latter did not coonstitute any sound results and it goes as follows:
White has gone up by two pawns but no win yet. I would say position of white is better by 29.Bf3 followed by Bxc6+
White has now a definite advantage in materials and wins and it is time to check after long study
My e5 line is correct and it seems to me that Black resigned too early
|Jan-02-12|| ||gofer: <M.Hassan> have you any idea why no one seems to be looking at <18 ... Ne8>? <LTJ> seems the only one mentioning it...|
|Jan-02-12|| ||sevenseaman: <Dr.J> <Nothing at all,and in fact that is basically the win given by the esteemed Honza Cervenka 8 years ago.>|
Thanks for pointing out <Honza Cervanka> had a similar solution of 8 years ago. Till now I thought I was the inventor of this line.
Compared to this brief approach other lines are a bit of a 'beating about the bush'.
|Jan-02-12|| ||sevenseaman: <M.Hassan> I was perusing your <18. Rxf6> line. Very nice. I had a similar idea at first sight but did not pursue it as the <18. e5> line came good.|
You left it one move too early. <29. Bh5> and Black is bearded w/o any escape response. f7 is bombed to extinction, White threatens <30. Rxe6+>. Black Q cannot help. <29...Rf8> is useless, <29...Rh7> is met by <30. Bg6>. What do you say?
Brave man you went flawlessly and came away when the door was about to open. In my eyes it is 9/10 for a gutsy effort.
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