chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

John Nunn vs Jaap van der Tuuk
Utrecht thematic (1986), Utrecht NED, rd 3, Oct-08
Sicilian Defense: Dragon Variation. Yugoslav Attack Old Line (B78)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 1,579 more games of Nunn
sac: 19.Qe2 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-01-08  Vicao: <jheiner> I first looked at Rd8+ Rxd8 Qxd8+ Kh7 when I wanted to play Qf8, threatening mate at g7, or capturing at f7 with check. However black can reply Qxf6+ which leaves white with nothing.

I then looked at Nd8 (which is a useless move) but which also made clear to me that black can make at least a draw here by checking with the queen at e5, a5 and e1.

I thought that was annoying, so there I started looking at Rd4, after which I managed to solve it.

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: Funny, I was thinking Nd8 Bh5 Nxe6 (fxe6 Qg7 mate)
Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <dzechiel: "I listed my candidate moves in the order that they came to me">

I do the same, which gives you some idea of why I did not find the solution easily.

<jheiner: Rd4 never entered the list. What is the thought process that people go through for generating the list. Is it purely left to right legal moves. I find it suspect that the first move on <dzechiel>s list just happened to be the right move.>

For me, the candidate list is the "creative" part of the process. If I get desperate, I start looking at all aggressive legal moves. I suspect experience dictates why certain candidates are attractive to people.

<Manic: I would not be surprised if most people in any situation (even in a real game) looked first at 37.Rd4, because it attacks the queen and puts the bishop under pressure. <dzechiel's> honesty has been questioned every now and then by kibitzers on the site. However, most CG members including me do not doubt him at all.>

Once I got to the candidate 37.Rd4, I knew it was the right one. It improves the position of the Rd3 by attacking the Bg4, and it surrenders nothing. You can make the move and then start looking seriously at the position.

I do not question <dzechiel>'s honesty. If you follow his posts, which have patterns of success and failure, you see a consistent human thought process. (That is why his posts are valuable.) As an example, you see rapidly that he does not calculate as much as I do, but he has much better positional intuition.

Feb-01-08  JG27Pyth: Omg it took me a solid, focused, 90 minutes of pure thought to find Rd4! but I found it...then I miscalculated the continuation with Qd7 instead of Qb4 (which I looked at, said to myself, oh yeah that looks obviously winning and promptly forgot about while I convinced myself I'd found a forcing line that mated or won a full rook with Qd7... Arrrggghhh!!!!!)

As for this --

<Dzechiel: The first thing I would like to look at is something to the effect of 37 Rd4 followed by 38 Qb4. [snip]

Honestly, I think I must have overlooked something, as this was too easy for a Friday.>

Oh, I believe you Dzechiel! But that doesn't quell my seething soul-searing bitterness and rage ;)

Pyth (to his tiny slavering deformed bat-winged human-faced familiar): Go... go my pretty... go... seek him... find him... and _poison his sleep_...AWAY! AWAY! *Flash, Purple smoke* ... muaaaahh ahah ahah ha...

Feb-01-08  buzzymind: <dzechiel>,

After 37. ♖d4 ♕f3 38. ♕b4 and now if
38. ♖xc6 39. ♕f8+ appears to be quicker to me.

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  dzechiel: <Pyth (to his tiny slavering deformed bat-winged human-faced familiar): ... muaaaahh ahah ahah ha...>

OK, this got me to laugh out loud. :D

Feb-01-08  MaxxLange: I missed this completely. 37. Rd4 sets up a very nice double attack with 38. Qb4, and does it with tempo.

Note to self: don't mess with John Nunn.

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  dzechiel: <buzzymind: <dzechiel>, After 37. Rd4 Qf3 38. Qb4 and now if 38. Rxc6 39. Qf8+ appears to be quicker to me.>

Excellent! The queen sac IS much faster. Very good, we will have to keep an eye on you. :)

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <buzzymind: After 37.Rd4 Qf3 38.Qb4 and now if 38.Rxc6 39.Qf8+.>

This variation is among my myriad calculations. Perhaps ironically, it was this finish that led me to find 38.Qb4. I wanted the Qe7 to remain in contact with f8.

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: So, if 36 Nc3! is winning as <MAJ> and others have pointed out, what, if anything, could black have done differently on move 35?

It looks like 35...Qe5 works, pinning the knight.


click for larger view

If white plays 36 Kb2 white can draw by perpetual check with 36...Qe1+. If 36 c2 or b4 then 36...Rc8 should work well for black.

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Well, I got some little bits & pieces, but couldn't put them together. :-(

I started off looking at Rd8+, but couldn't find any sustainable attack there.

Then the idea of putting the knight where my queen is, creating a nice K+R fork occurred to me. Most of my plans in that direction (i.e. moving my queen) were thwarted by the fact that black's queen can capture Pf7 *with check*. For this reason I tried 37. Rd4, which blocks the check from f6, and as a nice side effect, attacks the queen.

Now, it seems black has a few choices, which seemed to make it more difficult than it was, since any reasonable move (I think) can be answered by 38. Qb4!, which is exactly the move I need to vacate e7 for my knight -- but for some reason, I didn't see it!

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: No idea on this one. I was looking at the cut-off move Nd8,but I saw blacks checks as too dangerous.

The text is brillianr! White goes after the bishop and sets up a fork at e7-black cannot stop both!

Funny how the games worked out today: The winner of the games of the day is a Japanese while the winner of the puzzle games is a player whose first name happens to be "Jaap". Just a coincidence,as the player's name here is clearly Dutch.

Feb-01-08  scissors61: the fork on the could be avoided if 38...Kh7
Feb-01-08  zb2cr: Missed, missed, missed. <general607> claims that "37. Rd4 screams to be played". Well, I must need a hearing aid--I heard no screams at all. Rats.
Feb-01-08  alphee: Gosh ... completly missed this one as many others it seems. I could not find any move I could be confident with, so I gave up and went to the game. Very smart!
Feb-01-08  jovack: Black clearly needs to be stopped. He has a mean passed pawn (extra), and a bishop vs a knight (the knight is very strong in this endgame though).

Moves that came to mind first:
Qd8+ ? (back rank mate just misses)
Rd8+ comes close to a very beautiful mate
Rd8+ Rxc8
Nxc8 Bh5
Nxd6 threatening mate all over the place but wait, the stupid king has to be exposed, and Qe5+ puts a wrench in all my plans The weak a1h8 diagonal was a thorn in my side, so I looked for an answer to defend that region, while gaining a tempo with something forcing: Rd4!
With the idea of attacking the weak gfile after the queen retreats to b4 This leaves two pending attacks. Either black loses his queen, or rook to a knight fork. Black has no pesky queen checks. So this turned out to be good. This difficulty was appropriate. Many moves to explore, definitely the most involved of the week.

Feb-01-08  jovack: Hey people:
If queen chooses the square f3. White can just move his rook back c4 defending. Black has nothing left. Then same plan to follow --> Qb4, and the black rook is lost???
Feb-01-08  wals: The left side of my brain processes information in a linear, sequential logical manner. The right side works by intuition, a gut feeling that "it's right." I'm told if I mesh these two side I will have an all conquering machine. Let's mesh.
RS Rd3-d4 intuitive
PM =
Well the RS went ok never did get around to the logical

Feb-01-08  inad: 37.Qb7 looks flashy and I don't see any refutations to it(I'm I right).
Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  zenpharaohs: Well I blundered again. I went with

37 Rd8+ Rxd8
38 Nxd8 Bh5
39 Qe8+ Kh7
40 Qe7

which turns out to be drawn according to Rybka, because black plays Bh5.

I'm not sure where I went wrong, but I figured I was grabbing the f7 pawn with some sort of mating/promotion threats. I definitely missed the correct solution.

Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For Today difficult Friday puzzle solution, White plays the deflection 37. Rd4! to set up a surprise clearance and double attack combination after 37...Qg5 38. Qb4! .
Feb-01-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <inad: 37.Qb7 looks flashy and I don't see any refutations to it>

37...Qxf6+ followed by 38...Re8 and black has the advantage. But it emphasizes another important point of 37.Rd4 - blocking the long diagonal, so that 38...Qxf6 isn't played with a check.

Feb-01-08  zb2cr: Hi <jovack>,

You wrote: "Hey people:
If queen chooses the square f3. White can just move his rook back c4 defending. Black has nothing left. Then same plan to follow --> Qb4, and the black rook is lost???"

That can't be what you meant, I must have missed something. If 37. ... Qf3; 38. Rc4, it looks to me as if Black plays 38. ... Rxc6, losing only the exchange rather than the full Rook. It looks as though White's best is to play 39. Qe8+, Kh7; 40. Qxc6. Unless you were thinking of 40. Qxf7+, Kh6; 41. Qg7+, Kh5; 42. Rxc6, Qxc6; 43. f7, perhaps?

What am I missing?

Feb-01-08  Manic: <zb2cr> and <jovack>:

<buzzymind: <dzechiel>,

After 37.Rd4 Qf3 38.Qb4 and now if
38.Rxc6 39.Qf8+ appears to be quicker to me.>

Feb-01-08  zb2cr: <Manic>,

Thanks for pointing that out, but <jovack> was talking about a different line ... he explicitly said White would move his Rook back to c4 defending.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
sicilian dragon soltis variation
by jpetersen46321
others + sicilian
by hartkoka
Yes very satisfactory
from CHESS ANALYSIS by wals
37 clearance
from Kash Kab of Kalamazoo by fredthebear
Sicilianas
by outplayer
Sicilian Dragon. Yugoslav Attack Old Line (B78) 1-0 37.? Friday
from SY Robertson doesn't play around Fredthebear by fredthebear
37.? (February 1, 2008)
from Friday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
sicilian dragon soltis variation
by jefegoode
37. Rd4! sets up 38. Qb4 +-
from Clearance by patzer2
37 clearance
from TacticalArchives by villasinian
Dragon Slayer
by Timothy Glenn Forney
Nunn too good!
from Grampmaster's Favorite Combo's by neeraj sah
37.? (Friday, February 1)
from Puzzle of the Day 2008 by Phony Benoni
Nunn too good!
from Grampmaster's Favorite Combo's by Grampmaster
37.? (Friday, February 1)
from POTD * Sicilian Defense - Part 1 by takchess


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC