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Lajos Portisch vs Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian
"Mad TV" (game of the day Apr-20-05)
Moscow (1967)  ·  Slav Defense: Exchange Variation (D10)  ·  1-0
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Given 63 times; par: 35 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-22-05  hintza: <Jaymthegenius> No problem.
Apr-22-05  Karpova: <jaymthegenius>

<This is a silly, subjective conclusion!>

You are the expert.

<I am not in love with Kosteniuk, just respect her as a strong GM, and recognize the objective beauty.>

Ok, i regarded love as an explanation for your assumption she would once become a champion. There are some other explanations left but i won't go as far as to write them down.

<Karpova: There are 1000's of other engines that analyse BETTER then Shredder! So you are like a little boy in love with this engine!>

Shredder actually is one of the best chess programs while Kosteniuk has a current Elo of 2492. Just compare that to the Fide-Top 100 list and think about it...

Apr-22-05  Jaymthegenius: Shredder actually is one of the best chess programs

See! My $100.00 was well spent! Now if I can only get a second proccessor to take advantage of it's full benenfit.

Kosteniuk has a ELO of 2492.

So did every other GM at some point, her ELO will improve, just you watch!

Apr-22-05  Karpova: <jaymthegenius>

she is already 21 years old!

look up how old carlsen, karjakin or radjabov were when they had an elo of about 2492...

Apr-23-05  Jaymthegenius: She's only 21? Still is alot of time to improve though.
Apr-23-05  Jaymthegenius: Old enough for me to date!
Apr-23-05  Karpova: you mean gaining about 300 points and becoming nr.1 GM in the world?
Apr-23-05  Jaymthegenius: Of course! She just has to play in alot more tournaments, remember some people's rating goes up by 400-500 points a year! She can do it!
Apr-23-05  Karpova: <Jaymthegenius>

everybody needs something to believe in...

Apr-23-05  Jaymthegenius: Some people sayd Bobby Fischer would never be champion, too hard for an American to compete with the Soviet Chess machene, but by god he did it!
Apr-23-05  WillC21: Some peoples rating goes up by 400-500 pts a year. Maybe someone rated like 1100, but that probably doesnt apply to people 2000+ ;)
Apr-23-05  Karpova: jamthegenius' prediction may prove right and kosteniuk will have a rating of 2992 at the end of the year. the chance exists...
Apr-23-05  WillC21: You never know...
Apr-24-05  Karpova: but jaymthegenius surely does!
Apr-24-05  Abaduba: <Jaym> <Kosteniuk is NOT a bad player! They should give her a World title shot! I would love to see Kramnik lose to a girl!>

I appreciate the support, but I'm only pointing out that Kosteniuk is (deservedly) and so drunkenknight had no right to insinuate that she was a bad player. I can't agree that she deserves a title shot; she may be better than you or I, but Kramnik is rated more than 300 points more than she is. And claiming that her advanced positional knowledge is better than Kramnik, who IMHO is one of the greatest positional players ever, is ridiculous. Not only do hundreds (but definitely not thousands) of players have better positional knowledge and more right to a title shot than Kosteniuk, but all but a handful of those players would have zero chance of beating Kramnik.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: Instead of the more passive 6...e6, Black might could have avoided the weakened Kinside, which White effectively exploited, by playing the mainline 6...Bf5 as in V Ikonnikov vs L Dominguez, 2004.
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: Portisch was apparently fairly well versed in this opening system, and his 13. 0-0! was a novelty offering to gambit either the pawn on b2 or e3 as a positional sacrifice.

The gambit appears sound as White gets a space advantage, the initiative and attacking chances against the Black Kingside as sufficient compensation. And in this game, he managed to catch Petrosian off guard and pulled off a nice win.

The alternative 13. Qe2!?, trying to hold on to the b2 and e3 pawns, as in H K Matisons vs Euwe, 1924 , offers White no advantage. Yet despite White's strange resignation in a near even position in that game, 13. Qe2!? does not appear to be a particularly bad move. However, 13. 0-0! is stronger.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. cxd5 cxd5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bf4 e6> I don't like this move. The more popular and active alternative 6...Bf5 offers Black winning counter chances as in Huzman vs Shirov, 2004 <7. e3 Bd6 8. Bg3 O-O 9. Bd3 Re8 10. Ne5 Bxe5 11. dxe5 Nd7 12. f4 Qb6 13. O-O> This gambit was a novelty played by Portisch to catch Petrosian off guard. Trying to hold the pawn with 13. Qe2 as in the Euwe game cited above gives White no advantage. <13...Qxe3+> White maintains a small advantage after 13... Qxb2 14. Nb5 Nc5 (14... Rd8? 15. Bh4 f6 16. Nc7 Rb8 17. Nxe6 Re8 18. Bxh7+ ) 15. Rf2 Qb4 16. Nc7 Bd7 17. Nxa8 Rxa8 18. Qd2 Qxd2 19. Rxd2 f6 20. exf6 gxf6 21. Bh4 Nxd3 22. Rxd3 Kf7 23. e4 Ne7 24. Rb1 Bc6 25. e5 fxe5 26. fxe5 Nf5 27. Bf6 <14. Kh1 Qb6> worth a try for Black was 14... Nb4 15. Bb1 Nc6 16. Nb5 <15. Qh5 Nf8> Black is probably wise not to create positional weaknesses with 15... g6 16. Qe2 Nd4 17. Qd2 Nf5 18. Bf2 Perhaps Black could have equalized and held with 15... h6!? 16. Nb5 Nc5 17. Bf2 d4 18. Bc4 Ne4 19. Qe2 Nxf2+ 20. Qxf2 Bd7 21. Nd6 Rf8 22. Qe2 Ne7 23. Rf3 Nf5 24. Rb3 Qc6 25. Nxb7= <16. Rf3 Ng6 17. Bf2 Qd8> Probably not much help for Black is 17... d4?! 18. Ne4 Nce7 (18... Qxb2 19. Rb1 Qxa2 20. Nf6+ Kf8 21. Qxh7 gxf6 22. exf6 Re7 23. Bxg6 fxg6 24. Qh8+ Kf7 25. Re1 Qc2 26. Rh3 g5 27. Bxd4 b6 28. Be5 Bb7 29. Rh7+ Kg6 30. Rg7+ Rxg7 31. Qxg7+ Kf5 32. Qxg5#) 19. Ng5 h6 20. Nxf7 Kxf7 21. Bxg6+ Nxg6 22. Rg3 Re7 23. Qxg6+ Kg8 24. Bxd4 Qxd4 25. Rd3 Qb6 26. Rad1 Bd7 27. Rxd7 Rae8 28. a3 Kf8 29. b4 Qb5 30. R7d3 (30. R7d6 a5 31. bxa5 Qxa5 32. Qg3 b5 33. h3 Kg8 34. Qb3 Qa7 35. R1d2 Qc5 36. Rc2 Qa7 37. Kh2 Kh8 38. Rc3 Qf2 39. Qb4 Qe1 40. Rb6 g5 41. Rf3 Qxb4 42. axb4 Rf7 43. fxg5 Rxf3 44. gxf3 hxg5 45. Kg3 Kh7 46. Kg4 Kg6 47. Rd6 Re7 48. Ra6 Re8 49. Rb6 Re7 50. f4 gxf4 51. Kxf4 Rf7+ 52. Kg4 Re7 53. h4 Kh6 54. Rxb5 Rd7 55. Rb6 Rd4+ 56. Kg3 Kh5 57. b5 Rxh4 58. Rxe6 Rb4 59. Rf6 Kg5 60. Kf3 Rxb5 61. Ke4 Rb4+ 62. Kd5 Rb5+ 63. Kd4 Rb4+ 64. Kc5 Ra4 65. Rf3 Ra6 66. Kd5 Ra5+ 67. Kd6 Ra6+ 68. Ke7 Ra7+ 69. Ke8 Ra6) 30... Kg8 31. Rd8 Rf8 32. h3 Qc6 33. Kh2 Qc7 34. Rxf8+ Kxf8 35. Rd6 a5 36. b5 b6 37. a4 <18. Nb5 Nce7> Black needed to try and hold with 18... Rf8 19. Bc5 Nce7 20. Raf1 b6 21. Bxe7 Qxe7 22. Nd6 a5 23. Rd1 Bd7 24. Rh3 h6 25. Bxg6 fxg6 26. Qxg6 Be8 27. Qg4 Kh7 28. Rc3 Rd8 <19. Nd6 Bd7?> Black misses his last chance to play 19...Rf8 with drawing chances.<20. Bh4!> Now Black is busted, even though Portisch had a stronger and easier winning alternative in 20. Nxe8! <20...Qb6 21. Rh3 h6 22. Bf6 Qxb2 23. Rf1 Nf5> No help for Black is 23... d4 24. Nxf7! <24. Bxf5!> Black resigns in lieu of 24...exf5 25. Bxg7! 1-0

Jul-06-09  ToTheDeath: What a massacre.
Aug-04-11  DrMAL: Petrosian avoided the ugly but effective pawn moves 15...g6 or 15...h6 and chose a (bad) plan with 15...Nf8. It takes a very sharp eye to see the (best) plan Portisch adopted in response. 19...Bd7 was a second mistake losing faster, and Portisch found the best route here with 20.Bh4 as well. Bad day for Petrosian, great win for Portisch. Happy Birthday to him!
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Some of the posts here are totally unphatimable.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Abdel Irada: <offramp: Some of the posts here are totally unphatimable.>

I think you mean "unfathomable," unless you're suggesting that they are incapable of being turned into Phatima [sic].

Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Actually, I was thinking of this post:

< Apr-20-05 Jaymthegenius: What's that? The appearance?

I was refering to her unphatimable positional and endgame knowledge...>

Premium Chessgames Member
  Abdel Irada: <offramp: Actually, I was thinking of this post:

< Apr-20-05 Jaymthegenius: What's that? The appearance?

I was refering to her unphatimable positional and endgame knowledge...>>

I hadn't seen that. Apparently it appeared on an earlier page.

Besides, you can't expect geniuses to follow the same spelling rules as the common herd. ;-)

Premium Chessgames Member
  NeverAgain: This thread is pure gold, if slightly off-topic.

<Karpova: [Kosteniuk]'s is neither one of the most talented chessplayers nor one of the most talented and best female chessplayers.>

<<Apr-20-05 Jaymthegenius: Hey! Don't be rude! In time she will be world champion material! Just you watch!>>

Of course, time is a relative thing. And ten years is merely a flicker across its ever-changing panorama. That means we've got ten years more watching Kosteniuk become world-champion material while we try to remember not to be rude.

I wonder where Jaymthegenius is now and if he even remembers who Kosteniuk is.

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