< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·
|Apr-23-10|| ||keypusher: <the good anarchist>|
<<keypusher>: we were discussing <becoming> champion while overweight, not losing the crown while overweight.>
No. Becoming champion while overweight was the initial topic, then it broadened (so to speak) to fat chessmasters generally. That's why Bogoljubov, Vidmar, Marco etc. were mentioned.
|Apr-23-10|| ||thegoodanarchist: <keypusher>
That was just <Petrosianic> wandering off topic!
|Apr-23-10|| ||TheFocus: I notice that in the Nuremberg photo that Lasker and Schlechter are the only ones not looking at the camera.|
To me, it seems they may thinking, "Man, that Steinitz is really getting kind of pudgy. Note to self: take long walks in the country. A Pilates class wouldn't hurt either."
And Schlechter seems to be looking at Tarrasch and thinking, "What the heck is that in his ear? That's is gross! Hmmm, should I tell him?"
|Apr-23-10|| ||Benzol: I think Marco, Maroczy and Blackburne were fairly tall and so was Alyekhin. Capablanca was about 5' 8" in height IIRC. Of course many chess masters drank so that might account for some corpulence. |
On a slightly different note how many masters were smokers? Lasker and Pillsbury loved cigars, the latter used to blow smoke into the pieces on the board. Did this help him to win by blinding his opponent with a smokescreen?
Alyekhin smoked cigarettes but I'm not sure whether Capablanca did. Botvinnik was a non-smoker but had Ragozin blow smoke at him to help him get use to it. Was that when he was about to play Tal for the WCC or before that?
As well as Tal Korchnoi and Spassky did. Don't know about Petrosian. As far as I know Fischer, Karpov and Kasparov didn't. Thoughts anyone.
|Apr-23-10|| ||tamar: Spassky smoked?
Spassky obviously loved conditioning through sports, and was always in great shape in his peak years.
|Apr-23-10|| ||keypusher: <benzol> From Capablanca's letter to his son:|
<If you can avoid it, never play cards, smoke or drink alcohol of any kind. These are bad habits which greatly shorten life and weaken men physically as well as intellectually and morally.>
Botvinnik had Ragozin blow smoke in his face in his preparations for the 1941 match-tournament.
<A few words about my own
play. I prepared for the tournament long and successfully...My old friend,
master (now grandmaster) Ragozin, was of great help to me in my
preparations. I played training games with him under corresponding
conditions. As I had grown unaccustomed to tobacco smoke and had
suffered a little from it in other tournaments, during our games Ragozin
often threw up real smoke screens. And so when my opponents in the
tournament sent streams of tobacco smoke in my direction, (accidentally,
of course!), it had no effect on me.>
|Apr-23-10|| ||TheFocus: I think banning smoking during play was one of the best things to happen to chess.|
So, this chick asks me, "Do you smoke after sex?"
I said, "I don't know, I never looked."
|Apr-24-10|| ||Benzol: <keypusher> Scott, thanks!|
|Apr-24-10|| ||thegoodanarchist: <TheFocus: ...
And Schlechter seems to be looking at Tarrasch and thinking, "What the heck is that in his ear? That's is gross! Hmmm, should I tell him?">
LOL Thanks for the laugh on a Saturday morning. Almost snorted coffee out my nose!
|Apr-24-10|| ||thegoodanarchist: <Benzol: As far as I know Fischer, Karpov and Kasparov didn't. Thoughts anyone.>|
Fischer was a noted tea-totaller, so I doubt he smoked tobacco or anything else. Bent Larsen recalled that when Fischer was young, they were in a tourny together where the organizers gave the gift of two bottles of liquor to all the players.
Fischer poured one bottle down the sink but couldn't get the other bottle open. "To Bobby, all liquor was quite harmful, and he never touched the stuff."
Larsen diverted Fischer's attention and stole the second bottle!
|Apr-28-10|| ||Eyal: <RandomVisitor: After the proposed improvement 42.f4!? |
[-2.47] d=32 42...gxf4 43.Nf3 h6 44.h4 Rxa6 45.Rxa6 Kxa6 46.h5 Bb4 47.Ke2 Kb5 48.Kd3 Bf8 49.Kc2 Kc5 50.Kd3 Kd6 51.Nh4 Ke6 52.Ke2 Kd7 53.Kd3>
After 46.h5 it looks like White establishes a blockade on the light squares:
click for larger view
And I don't see how Black can break through (e.g., 49...Kc4 50.Nd2+ followed by 51.Kd3); the moves in the Rybka line from this point on appear pretty random, so the -2.47 eval is probably meaningless.
In OMGP, Kasparov gives another drawing line: 42...gxf4 43.g5 fxg5 44.Nf3 g4 45.Nxe5 h5 46.Ng6 f3 47.e5 Be1 48.e6 f2 49.Ke2 Rxa6 50.Rxa6 d3+ 51.Kf1 Kxa6 52.e7 d2 53.e8Q d1Q 54.Qe2+! Qxe2+ 55.Kxe2 h4 56.Kf1 h3 57.Nf4 g3 58.Nxh3 gxh2 59.Nxf2 Bxf2 60.Kg2!; or 44...Rxa6 45.Rxa6 Kxa6 46.Nxg5 Ba5 47.Nxh7 (47.Nf7 Bc7) 47...Bd8 (47...f3 48.Nf6 f2 49.Ke2 Be1 50.Ng4 d3+ 51.Kf1 Kb5 [51...d2? 52.Ne3] 52.Nxf2 Bxf2 53.Kxf2) 48.Nf8 Bf6 49.Nd7 Bh8 50.Nc5+ Kb5 51.Nb3 Kb4 52.Nd2 Bf6 53.Nf3 Kb3 54.h3 Kb2 55.Kd2. So apparently 42.f4 does force a draw and deserves a "!!" rather than "!?".
|Apr-29-10|| ||Riverbeast: <Fischer was a noted tea-totaller, so I doubt he smoked tobacco or anything else>|
I don't think Fischer smoked cigarettes, but there are stories of him drinking alcohol later in his life
|Apr-29-10|| ||Riverbeast: <So apparently 42.f4 does force a draw and deserves a "!!" rather than "!?".>|
<Eyal> My problem with all of those drawing lines (and of course, I'm no Rybka or Kasparov) is that black is allowing the trade of rooks in both of them
It seems clear that black's best winning chances in this position, are with the rooks on the board
Which is why Fischer played 42...Ba5 before taking the a6 pawn
|Apr-29-10|| ||Riverbeast: <In OMGP, Kasparov gives another drawing line: 42...gxf4 43.g5 fxg5 44.Nf3 g4 45.Nxe5 h5 46.Ng6 f3 47.e5 Be1 48.e6 f2 49.Ke2 Rxa6 50.Rxa6 d3+ 51.Kf1 Kxa6 52.e7 d2 53.e8Q d1Q 54.Qe2+! Qxe2+ 55.Kxe2 h4 56.Kf1 h3 57.Nf4 g3 58.Nxh3 gxh2 59.Nxf2 Bxf2 60.Kg2!>|
<Eyal> I just looked at this line in a little more depth
It seems to me that on the 49th move black would do better, instead of taking the a6 pawn and trading rooks, by immediately playing 49. ....d3+ 50. Kf1 d2
If I'm not mistaken, black looks winning there. What do you think?
|Apr-29-10|| ||Eyal: <Riverbeast> Well, one of the points of 42.f4 is exactly to make enough trouble for Black so that he won't have time for that Ba5 maneuver as in the game. E.g., in the line 42....gxf4 43.Nf3 h6 44.h4, 44...Ba5 would allow 45.g5 with a draw after exchanges on g5 and White picking up the e5 and d4 pawns. As for your suggestion, it's still drawn after 49....d3+
50.Kf1 d2 51.e7 Rxe7 (51...d1=Q 52.e8=Q+ and White gets a perpetual; 51...Ra8 52.Ra1) 52.Rxd2 Bxd2 (52...Rh7 53.a7 Rxa7 54.Rd5+ and Rxh5) 53.Nxe7.|
|Apr-29-10|| ||Riverbeast: <As for your suggestion, it's still drawn after 49....d3+ 50.Kf1 d2 51.e7|
This is the line that made me think black is winning...(Not 51...Rxe7)
After 52. Ra1, my idea is to play 52...Kc6 and 53..Kd7, stopping the 'e' pawn
Then black simply threatens ...Rxa6 (or ...Rxa7, if the pawn is pushed to a7) and white can't recapture because one of the pawns queens
I'm looking at this largely in my head (I'm at work and don't have a board in front of me)...So I may be missing something
|Apr-29-10|| ||Petrosianic: <Larsen diverted Fischer's attention and stole the second bottle!>|
Did he take it en passant, like Blackburne?
|Apr-29-10|| ||Eyal: <After 52. Ra1, my idea is to play 52...Kc6 and 53..Kd7, stopping the 'e' pawn>|
Yeah, I see the idea - but this is actually losing for Black, after 53.a7
click for larger view
with the threat of Rb8; if 54...Rc8/e8 then White wins by 55.Ne5+! with the idea of Nc6-Nb8; or alternatively Rb8 in case of Kxc6 (and then the a-pawn queens with check if Black queens his d-pawn). And 53...Kd6 is met by 54.e8=Q Rxe8 55.a8=Q Rxa8 56.Rxa8.
|Apr-29-10|| ||Riverbeast: <Eyal> It looks like you're right...I missed 54. Rb1!|
And the skewer on d8 after 53...Kd6 54. e8(Q) Rxe8 55. a8(Q) Rxa8 56. Rxa8
|Jul-29-10|| ||GrahamClayton: Photo just after Fischer played 42...a5:
|Dec-25-10|| ||perfidious: <Anarchist> Sly move by Larsen, that!|
This only heightens my admiration for him as a player, lol.
|Mar-30-12|| ||offramp: <Eyal> Thanks a lot for that superb post!|
|Mar-30-12|| ||offramp: <GrahamClayton> A very good post; THANKS!|
|Feb-10-13|| ||Garech: Great game and great photo!
|Apr-06-13|| ||Conrad93: At move 50 it looks like a dead draw.|
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