< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Apr-18-05|| ||Hoozits: To be honest, Rxg6 seemed like it must be the correct move (and it was indeed), but as for me, finding this particular follow-up as well as other possible continuations isn't that easy. |
|Apr-18-05|| ||Hoozits: By the way, are there any other fans of the Stonewall Attack out there? |
|Apr-18-05|| ||riqhi: ha! I know it's monday but it took me almost 5 minutes to get this one! Or it's too early in the morning and I'm not awake or it's a bit harder than normal ;-) |
|Apr-18-05|| ||Shokwave: Got this fast. First looked at saccing the queen on h7, saw that fizzled out, then looked at Rxg6 and saw that he couldn't play hxR...from there it was easy to see that all K moves lead to mate. Interesting that the first thing I looked at was throwing my queen on the fire, THEN I looked at saccing the rook instead lol! |
|Apr-18-05|| ||zb2cr: <RookFile: I think 18....c4 is a 'criminal' move. It's hard to imagine how much clearer it can be that
White is going to attack on the Kingside. ...>|
To be fair, <Rookfile>, the modern theories of keeping tension in the center and not extending Pawn chains too far were not, in 1893, as well known as they are today. I can think of any number of Queen's Pawn games from that era where Black relaxed the central tension for the sake of gaining space on the Queenside--and the Pawn-based attack never got there.
For one example, the well-known game
Pillsbury vs Tarrasch, 1895
|Apr-18-05|| ||YouRang: An easy one. Of course it's easier to find the solution in a 'white-to-move-and-win' puzzle than it is 'over-the-board'. |
|Apr-18-05|| ||zb2cr: More for <Rookfile>....|
And sometimes, extending that QUeenside Pawn chain worked, even against the master of the Queen's Gambit, Pillsbury.
See, for example, Pillsbury vs J C Halpern, 1894.
|Apr-18-05|| ||artemis: 18. ... c4 is an odd move here, but I think that I can see some definite advantages to the move that seem to have been overlooked here. <Rookfile> when I saw the move, I had similar reactions to yours, but there are some positive aspects of this move. It first and foremost entombs the bad bishop, taking advantage of white's c2-c3 pawn push and killing the bihsop. The bishop actually provided problems for white that were not quite deadly later on. In the endgame, it is very useful to have everysingle one of your pawns on the opposite color of your opponent's bishop, and thier pawns on the color of your bishop. In addition to that, Black wanted a knight on e4, and c5 would be the only remaining square that black could use to reach e4.|
As for your plan, I like it better than Delmar's plan. but both are slow, and I think that white has a defenite advantage by move 18, although it is very difficult to be sure. The kingside play seems to be easier to manipulate, since the pawns are already prepared to advance.
|Apr-18-05|| ||JustAFish: Doesn't 37. Rh6 work as well? |
|Apr-18-05|| ||kevin86: Strange,after black's thirty-fifth move,there are:three sets of doubled pawns in a relatively closed game. No one is using the wide open d-file,but the attack comes through black's lace curtain king side.Two pawns are hopeless to hold back both white rooks and a queen. The attack will come quickly. |
|Apr-18-05|| ||RookFile: Well, the thing is.... black can
still play ....c4 later. But once
you're committed to it, and the knight hops in to d4.... I didn't
see Black getting as much counterplay as Tarrasch did in his game against Pillsbury.
|Apr-18-05|| ||Stonewaller2: <It's hard to imagine how much clearer it can be that White is going to attack on the Kingside.> That's the Stonewall Attack all over, folks. I close the center, put a ♘ on e5 and come after your ♔. Nothing subtle about it. It's swing for the walls chess. Be afraid. Be very afraid. ;) |
|Apr-18-05|| ||RookFile: The whole thing about the way
black approached counterplay in
this game was.... thinking about
it from white's point of view....
all black ended up with was every
piece off his moved far away from
his king, with some nebulous idea
of playing ... Rxa2. Big deal!
Meanwhile, white has a queen, 2 rooks,
a bishop, and a far advanced pawn
attacking the black king.
If there wasn't a winning sacrifice
for white, it's time for all of
us to quit chess.
|Apr-18-05|| ||zb2cr: If 36 ... Kf7; 37 Qxh7+, Ke8; 38 Rg8+, Bf8; 39 Qg6+. Now two variations:|
a. 39 ... Kd7?; 40 Qf7+, Kd8 ( 40 ... Be7; 41 Qxe7# ); 41 Rxf8+ and mate next move.
b. 39 ... Rf7; 40 Rhh8, Qc5 ( 40 ... Kd7; 41 Qxf7+ etc. ); 41 Bxc5, c1=Q; 42 Rxf8+, Kd7; 43 Qxf7+, Kc6; 44 Rc8+, Rxc8; 45 Rxc8+, Kb5; 46 Qd7+, Ka5; 47 Ra8#.
36 ... Kf8 is even worse. 37 Qh6+, Ke1; 38 Rg8+, Kd7 ( 38 ... Bf8; 39 Qxf8+, Kd7; 40 Rxh7# ); 40 Qxh7, Be7; 41 Qxe7#.
|Apr-18-05|| ||fenno: (36. - Kf7 37.Qxh7+ Ke8 38.Rg8+ Bf8) 39.Rxf8+ Kxf8 40.Qh8+ Kf7 41.Qg7+ Ke8 42.Rh8# |
|Apr-18-05|| ||Gypsy: < Honza Cervenka: ... what is more important, black missed several opportunities to get white into trouble, for example playing 26...Qa4 instead of slow 26...Ra7 ... > Honza, would you check these variations for sanity; they are extrapolated from your ideas: <26...Qb5 27.Rhb1> 27.Bc1 Qa4 looks very good for Black <27...Nd2!?> risky but winning(?) <28.Ng4! Nxb1!? 29.Nf6+ Kh8 30.hxg6 h6!!> only thus to hold things together(?) <31.Rxb1 Rxa2> and it seems that White can not close the mating net; eg, 32.Kf3 fxg6 ... , or 32.gxf7 Rxb2+ 33.Rxb2 Qxb2+ 34.Kf3 Re7 35.Qh5 Qc2 ..., or 32.Nxf8 Qxf8 ... (with a very good endgame). |
|Apr-19-05|| ||Honza Cervenka: <Gypsy> 26...Qb5 27.Rhb1 Nd2 28.hxg6 fxg6 29.Ng4 Bg7 30.Rd1 Qxb2 31.Qf2 Qxc3 etc. looks okay for black. After your 28.Ng4 I would prefer 28...Bg7 29.Nh6+!? Bxh6 30.gxh6 Qc5 as more solid but the position is still quite complex. |
|Apr-20-05|| ||Gypsy: < Honza Cervenka> Thanks for being a sounding board! <26...Qb5 27.Rhb1 Nd2 28.hxg6 fxg6 29.Ng4 Bg7 30.Rd1 Qxb2 31.Qf2 Qxc3 etc. looks okay for black. > In this variation, 30.Rh1 looks razor sharp ... and scarry -- eg, 30.Rh1 Qxb2 31.Qxh7+ Kf8 32.Nf6 Ne4+ 33.Kh3 Nf2+ 34.Kg3 Ne4+ ... |
|Apr-23-05|| ||patzer2: Instead of the Blunder 34...Bc5??, Black should have played Honza Cervenak's 34...Rd7!, which not only holds the position but actually gives Black winning chances:|
34... Rd7! 35. hxg6 fxg6 36. a4 [36. Rxg6+ hxg6 37. Qh8+ Kf7 38. Rh7+ Ke8 ; 36. f7+ Rxf7 37. Rxg6+ Kh8 38. Qg4 Bc5 39. Qxe6 Qxe6 40. Rxe6 Ra3 41. Re8+ Rf8 42. Rxf8+ Bxf8 43. Ke2 Rxa2 44. Bc1 Ba3 45. e6 Kg7 46. Kd2 Bb4+ 47. Ke3 Bc3 48. f5 b5 49. e7 Kf7 50. Rxh7+ Ke8 51. e5 Bxe5 52. Rh6 Ra1 53. f6 Bxf6 54. Rxf6 Rxc1 ] 36... c3 37. f7+ Rxf7 38. Rxg6+ Kh8 39. Qg4 Ba3 40. Qxe6 Qxe6 41. Rxe6 Rd7 42. Reh6 Raa7 43. Bc1 Bf8 44. R6h2 Rd1 45. f5 Kg8 46. Rg2+ Rg7 47. Rgh2 Rgd7 48. Rg2+ Bg7 49. e6 R7d3+ 50. Ke2 R1d2+ 51. Bxd2 cxd2 52. Rgg1 Rd4 53. f6 d1=Q+ 54. Rxd1 cxd1=Q+ 55. Rxd1 Rxd1 56. f7+ Kf8 57. Kxd1 Ke7 .
|Apr-24-05|| ||patzer2: After 34...Bc5??, Pillsbury's followup 35. hxg6! fxg6 36. Rxg6+ Kh8 37. Rg7! gives him a winning attack against Black's weakened castled position.|
|Apr-24-05|| ||RookFile: Interesting analysis. I don't have
a computer chess program. What
is the verdict after 34.... Rd7
35. Qg4 with the idea of f5
|Apr-24-05|| ||patzer2: <RookFile>, after 34...Rd7! 35. Qg5 Ra3!, White is busted. |
One possible line is 34...Rd7! 35. Qg5 Ra3! 36. hxg6 (36. f5 exf5 ) 36... Rxe3+! 37. Kxe3 Rd3+ 38. Kf2 (38. Ke2 Qxe4+ 39. Kf2 Qf3+ 40. Ke1 Rd1#) 38... Bc5+ 39. Kg2 Qxe4+ 40. Kh2 Bxg1+ 41. Rxg1 Rd2+ 42. Rg2 Rxg2+ 43. Qxg2 Qxf4+ 44. Kh3 Qh6+ 45. Kg4 Qxg6+ 46. Kf3 Qxg2+ 47. Kxg2 c1=Q .
|May-28-05|| ||gauer: Hoozits: I can admit to being a Queenside Stonewall formation (at white's move 7 here, at least it still looks like a reversed Dutch) player. Unfortunately, I'm still learning all the best move-orders to the set-up, 1st. Hard to get when black won't co-operate, and he instead may choose many other sidelines at hand...|
|Aug-02-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Guess-the-Move Final Score:
Pillsbury vs E Delmar, 1893.
YOU ARE PLAYING THE ROLE OF PILLSBURY.
Your score: 97 (par = 73)
|Dec-25-18|| ||HarryP: One of the lovable things about Pillsbury is that he played the Stonewall. Not often...but he did play it a few times. Go to HarryP's Stonewall Collection for 13 Stonewall games. Pillsbury played 6 of them.|
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