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|Jan-06-05|| ||torrete64: Gypsy, Now I know why Im blind :-) |
|Jan-06-05|| ||CHEG: <JeffCollier 42 Bd6 looks potent.> I think you're right Jeff.|
Best Line for Black
40 ... Kg7 41 Rbg8+ Kf6 42 Bxd6 Be5 43 Bxe5+ (43..Ke7 mate in 3) Qxe5+ 44 Qxe5+ Kxe5 white has a good endgame up the exchange with a passed pawn.
If perpetual check is attempted.
42...Bg1+ 43 Kg3 white threatens mate Qe7
Any errors in this line? I think white has a won game black can't force a draw.
|Jan-06-05|| ||Shams: why not 19.Bxg5
|Jan-06-05|| ||Gypsy: <CHEG: ... 40 ... Kg7 41 Rbg8+ Kf6 42 Bxd6 ... If perpetual check is attempted. 42...Bg1+ 43 Kg3 white threatens mate Qe7> Then 43...Bf2+ etc. -- as <Gregor Samsa Mendel> points out above. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||maxundmoritz: <CHEG> 43.Kg3 is answered with 43...Bf2+ and then White either loses the Queen or is mated by 44.Kh2 Rh1+ 45.Kxh1 Qb1+ 46.Qe1 Qxe1 47.Kh2 Qg1#. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||Gypsy: < torrete64: Gypsy, Now I know why Im blind :-) > Believe me, I have had plenty of exactly theese oversights. :-| |
|Jan-06-05|| ||Skylark: Polgar was very young, yes; in the opening there were a couple of slips... |
5. ... e5 should have been punished with
6. e4 d6
7. Bxc4 g6
8. Nf3! Bg7
9. O-O O-O
10. h3 Na6
11. Ne1 Rb8
Better for black is:
5. ... d6!
6. e4 Ba6
7. f4 Nbd7
8. Nf3 g6
9. Be2 Bg7
10. O-O O-O
11. Nd2 Ne8
12. Nxc4 Rb8
Black has good counterplay for the pawn. Another alternative from this line is the unclear line:
9. e5!? dxe5
10. fxe5 Ng4
11. Bf4 Bg7
12. e6 Nde5!?
With a sharp game. I've played a couple of games with these two lines with good results as black... 5. ... e5 was a bit ambitious on the part of Polgar. (Lol, in OTB play she would grill me, but oh well. I like the Benko ;D)
|Jan-06-05|| ||newold: What do you think of this summary : white is playing for the draw. His best move to do that is : 40. Rh8+.|
If 40. ... Bxh8 then 41. Qe8 wins.
So black must play 40. ... Kg7.
Then white plays 41. Rh8g8+.
If 41. ... Kh8 then 42. Rh8+ draw.
If 41. ... Kf6 then 42. Rb8e8, threatening Qe7 mate.
Black must take the draw by 42. ...Bg1+ (or by 42. ... Qb1 43. Qe7+ Kf5 44. Qd7+ Kf6). If black plays 42. ... Be5 then 43. Rxg6+ Kxg6 (only move) 44. Bxe5 and white is ok.
|Jan-06-05|| ||DWINS: <maxundmoritz>, In your line after 45...Qb1+, white simply takes the queen with 46.Rxb1 |
|Jan-06-05|| ||newold: <CHEG> and <maxundmoritz> I agree with maxundmoritz, it's seems that white eventually loose after 40. Rh8 Kg7 41. Rbg8+ Kf6 42. Bd6 Bg1 and either 43.Kg3 or 43. Kh1 then black mates by the pattern 43. ... Bf2, 44. ... Rh1, 45. ... Qb1 and 46. Qg1 mate |
|Jan-06-05|| ||karlzen: A very interesting game.
<Skylark>, I don't really see why there is anything wrong with Polgar's play in the opening (or the rest of the game for that matter, except for the last move obviously)? She easily equalised and got active play. Even in your Nf3 line I don't see much of an advantage for white. In your second line I don't get what pawn black has counter-play for and I would play 9.e5 dxe5 10.fxe5 Ng4 11.e6!? Nde5 12.exf7+ Nxf7 13.Ng5 and black is in trouble. :)
40.Rh8+ Kg7 41.Rhg8+ Kf6 and white has several ways to draw, 42.Bxd6 being one of them.
|Jan-06-05|| ||MindlessOne: Yay, this one was tough but I still pulled it off, wow, It just occured to me after like 10 minutes, why not sac the rook and move the queen creating a threat that cant be ignored. The very first move that occured to me was 40.Bxd6, but I followed the advice of Lasker and tried to find a better move, besides, 40.Bxd6 does seem like black can perpetual check. Great puzzle chessgames.com.
<kartzen> Polgar didnt play bad at all, your right, but her opponent just played better. Look at the two open files, whites rooks hold at position 40. White also has more pressure on blacks rook, not to mention pressure on blacks central pawn structure. Its seems to me polgar was looking for a draw near the end there. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||maxundmoritz: <DWINS> After 41.Rbg8+ the two white rooks are on g8 and h8 and in no position to take the queen on b1. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||patzer2: I'm adding 40. ♖h8+! ♔g7! to my defensive move collection. A summary, checked and validated with Fritz 8, and which confirms <Crafty>'s, <Karlzen>'s, <maxundmoritz>'s and <newold>'s analysis, is as follows: |
40. ♖h8+! ♔g7! 41. ♖hg8+
[not 41. Qe7?? Rh1+! 42. Kxh1 Qf1+ 43. Kh2 Qg1#]
[a trickier path to the draw is 41 Rbg8+ Kf6 42. Re8!
(a) not 42 Bxd6?? Bg1+ 43. Kh1 (43. Kg3? Bf2+! 44. Kh2 Rh1+ 45. Kxh1 Qb1+ 46. Kh2 Qg1#) 43...Be3+! 44. Kh2 Bf4+ 45. g3 (45. Bxf4? Qxf4+ 46. g3 Rf2+ ) 45...Bxd6 ;
(b) nor 42. Qe8?? Rh1+! 43. Kxh1 Qf1+ 44. Kh2 Qg1# ;
41 Rbg8+ Kf6 42. Re8! Bg1+ 43 Kh1 Be3+ 44. Kh2 Bg1+ = (draw by perpetual)]
40. ♖h8+! ♔g7! 41. ♖hg8+ ♔f6
[41...Kh7 42. Rh8+ Kg7 43. Rhg8+ = is the perpetual given by Crafty]
40. ♖h8+! ♔g7! 41. ♖hg8+ ♔f6 42. ♗xd6
[42. Rb8e8 Bg1+ 43. Kh1 Be3+ 44. Kh2 Bg1+ = is another draw by perpetual]
40. ♖h8+! ♔g7! 41. ♖hg8+ ♔f6 42. ♗xd6 [also good for a draw are 42. Rdb8 Bg1+ =; 42. Rge8 Bg1+ =; 42. Rbe8 Bg1+ =; 42. Rb7 Bg1+ =] 42...♗g1+ 43. ♔g3 [not 43. Kh1?? Be3+! 44. Kh2 Bf4+ 45. g3 Bxd6 ] 43...♗f2+ 44. ♔h2 ♗g1+ 45. ♔g3 ♗f2+ = is a neat draw by perpetual check.
|Jan-06-05|| ||Nickisimo: Yay, 4 for 4 this week. This one gave me some trouble, but after realizing that a double rook sac wasn't going to work out, the queen move to e8 seemed like the only reasonable move, threatening mate on h7 and h8. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||Swapmeet: So isn't there anything better for white than 40. Rh8+? Its been thoroughly established that this leads to nothing better than a draw. Any way for white to consolidate the extra exchange? Maybe not with the precarious position of his king. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||CHEG: Yep, looks like a draw.
Sorry 'bout my previous post. I've got to stop missing the obvious.
|Jan-06-05|| ||MindlessOne: hey hey hey, what about this variation. 40.Rh8+ Kg7! 41.Rbg8+ Kf6 Need to open the king position so that a perpetual check with Bg1+ isnt possible. so 42.h4 still lead to perpetual after 42...Qh3+ 43.KxQ Bf5+ and soon following is Bg1+ and perpetual check occurs once again. What if white plays 44.Qg4 followed by 44...BxQ+ 45.KxB keeping whites king safe from any immediate threats. geez, im starting to get lost in my analysis, hard to see all this but black has to protect against the threat 46.Rxh6+ Ke7 47.Bxd6+ Kd7 48.Ra8 threatening 49.Ra7+ Ke8 50.Bxc5 threatening if 50...BxB 51.Rh8# so.... 50...Bc3 white then runs up with his d-pawn and mate should follow, help me perfect this variation guys, or destroy it, looks good to me so far. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||ChessTeacher: Thanks for the analysis about the perpetual check scenarios. It certainly shows that patience is warranted. As a suggestion to Hermansson attack theme, why not 38. Qe2?|
If 38...Qc7; 39. Qe8....
If 38...Qxa4 to make a passed pawn, play is longer, but it looks like a slow death for Black. A possible line is 39. Qe8, Qxe8; 40. Rexe8, Rf1; 41. Rh8+, Kg7; 42. Rbg8+, Kf6; 43. Bxd6, Bg1+; 44. Kh3, Bf2+; 45. Kf3, Bd4+; 46. Ke2, Ra1; 47. Rxh6, Ra2+; 48. Kf3, Ra3+; 49. Kg4, a5; 50. h4, gxh4; 51. Kxh4, Ra1; 52. Rgh8, Rh1+; 53. Kg4, and if 53...Rxh6; 54. Rxh6, a4; 55. Rh8, a3; 56. Ra8, Bb2; 57. Ra6, Bb1; 58. Bxc5+, Ke5; 59. Bxa3 and Black is clearly losing. This shows that Black lacks the perpetual, and is facing a slow agonizing mate scenario. Black's play could easily be improved after the 53rd move shown here - but White is still ahead. Any comments are welcome.
|Jan-06-05|| ||Swapmeet: <MindlessOne> Bg1+ is still a perpetual after 42. h4 since the black Queen has h3 covered |
|Jan-06-05|| ||MindlessOne: <swapmeet>
Thank you for the correction, it would appear that this game is a draw after all despite how much Id like to try and oppose that idea. Maybe there was time pressure in the game and Judit Polgar didnt have time to notice the defensive stance Kg1! It also makes you wonder why chessgames.com posted this game as the tactical problem of the day, because this set of tactics achieves nothing, oh well, now I feel like I got the problem wrong due to the fact that despite my answer happened in the game, Kg1! is something I just overlooked. Very nice Patzer, tip my hat off to you, or should I tip my hat off to fritz, hehe.
|Jan-06-05|| ||patzer2: <MindlessOne> It's more Fritz and a fast AMD processor (better than my old Pentium IV) than me on this analysis. However, I frequently find winning combinations (or force the computer to find them) in positions that look promising, but which the computer initially only assesses as equal. Also, I am patient and will let the computer run for several hours to 18 or 20 depth if neccessary to clarify a difficult position. |
|Jan-06-05|| ||kevin86: I solved it according to the text-but of course as was seen,black has drawing and even winning chances. |
A good game-but a hopelessly weakened problem :(
An analogy can be made with a famous football play was found to be illegal. In the ice bowl's famous sneak by Bart Starr-Jerry Kramer (known for his famous block)was offside-today called a "false start"-the play counted,but under a shadow.
|Jan-06-05|| ||MindlessOne: <patzer> I have fritz on my chessbaselight, but I'm not sure how to set the depth and and everything, can you help me with that, its a good tool for chess improvement, like your on personal chess teacher. |
|Jan-07-05|| ||patzer2: <MindlessOne> To be honest, you have more software there than I own. I bought a separate edition of Fritz 8 but do not yet own a Chess database. When I find an interesting position on Chessgames.com, I set it up on Fritz 8 using "File/New/Position setup" and then either select "Game/Infinie Analysis" or "Tools/Deep Position Analysis." During the scan if I see a possibility I like, I will request Fritz explore it more in depth. As far as depth, it depends on how long I let Fritz search and the complexity of the position. Sometimes Fritz 8 will jump to 18 or 20 depth on an endgame position, or at other times get bogged down for a while at 12 depth on a complex middle game setup. Usually, however, depth of search is a function of how long you are willing to let Fritz run (i.e. the longer the time, the deeper the search). |
As far as setting the software paramaters for depth of search etc., I'd rather defer on that one to the software manufal from ChessBase, as it will depend on how much memeory you have on your system and how much you are willing to let Fritz 8 consume. I have a Gigabyte of RAM on my system, a fast processor and plenty of free hard drive, so I'm rather generous in setting my software paramaters to let Fritz go as far as possible.
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