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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Nov-24-06 | | ToTheDeath: Very nice combination. 14... Nf8 looks like a better way to shore up the king's defenses. |
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| Dec-19-06 | | jmelton: Doesn't 15...Nxe5 hold for Black? I don't see anything concrete for White after 16.dxe5 gxh6 17.exf6 Bxf6 18.Ne4 Be7. Crafty says it's a small edge for White. |
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| Apr-14-07 | | gambitfan: a wonderful miniature |
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Dec-25-11
 | | al wazir: <jmelton: Doesn't 15...Nxe5 hold for Black?> That's my question too. I went for 15. Nxf7 Kxf7 16. Bxe6+ Kxe6 (16...Kf8 17. Qg6) 17. Qb3+ Kf5 18. Qf7!, to be followed by 19. g4+, and the  hunt ends somewhere around h3. But black may have resources I overlooked. |
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| Dec-25-11 | | Magic Castle: I disagree with the annotation of black's move at move 17....Nd5. If, 17...fe6, the correct continuation is:
18. Qg6+...Kh8 19. ef6...Bf8. 20. Ne4...c5. 21. f7 <Not Ng5> (threatening Qg8#) Bg7 (forced) 22. Nf6 (Threat Qh7#) Bf6 (forced). 23. Qh6# |
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Dec-25-11
 | | M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 15.?
Forces are equal
The word insane usually necessitates a sac and therefore I go with:15.Bxh6 gxh6
16.Ng6
<if...fxg6 17.Qxg6+ Kf8 18.Bxe6 Ne5 19.dxe5 c5 20.Qf7#>
I don't think that Black will fall for 16...fxg6
16..........Kg7
17.Nxe7
White has gained a pawn more but his Knight on e7 is virtually gone. I think I have missed something.
Time to check
By the way: MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL CHRISTIANS AND HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON TO ALL KIBITZERS |
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| Dec-25-11 | | rilkefan: I went with Nxf7/Bxe6. Apparently Nd5 is better for black though. Stockfish seems to think (depth of 27, 1 Gnode) Bxh6 is a mistake after 15...c5, defending e6, with an equal position (I guess because it's just a rook pawn and black ends up with the d file and active pieces that generate a perpetual after Q over and Bxg2). It thinks white is better after 15.Bxe6 fxe6 16.Qg6, but nothing to write home about after ...Nxe5 17.dxe5 Rf8 18.exf6 Rxf6: +0.6 (30 plies/1.3 Gnode). |
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| Dec-25-11 | | Gambit86: 19...Kg8 20.Qg6+ Kh8 21.Qh5+ Kg7 22.Qxf7+ Kh8 23.Bf5 with mate to follow. I see 22...Kh6 lasts a couple more moves after 23.Bf5 Rg8 or c5 24.Qh7+ Kg5 25.Ne4# |
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| Dec-25-11 | | stukkenjager: 15.Bxh6 c5 16.dxc5 Qxc5 17.Nxd7 Rxd7 18.Bf4 Rad8 =
Merry Christmas |
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Dec-25-11
 | | sevenseaman: Equal on material.
First thought was to play 15. Nxf7 Kxf7 16. Bxe6+ Kxe6 17. Qb3+ Black can insert the N at d5 and my 2-sac putsch is stalled. 
click for larger viewSecond idea 15. Bxe6 fxe6 16. Qg6 looks more attacking but Black answers Ne8. Qf7 will be good for only a draw. 
click for larger viewThird idea. 15. Ng6, the N looks immune to the f P as 16. Bxe6 follows. Let us say Black does take the N. 15...fxg6 16. Bxe6+ Kh7 17. Bf7 Nf8 and Black defends g6 one more time. Again my attack is thwarted. 
click for larger viewHow about sacking the DSB on h6 and then sacking the LSB on e6? Black will hardly be in a position to accept this second sac because of the Q bearing in on g6. Tough! I could say that again. But I <just have> to try this one too. 15. Bxh6 gxh6 16. Bxe6 ( fxe6 is not good for Black as 17. Qg6+ is tough) I do not see how else he will keep my Q from g6. 16...Nxe5 17. dxe5) This looks good. Since Black has no other resource,it goes; 17...~ 18. Qg6+. Kf8 is extinction the K can only go to h8 and 19. Qh8 will bring the bacon home. (I nearly slipped by thinking of Bf5 for Qh7# but then the Black N comes to f6 to complicate it further. No let up in checks, if available) Home and dry I think. 
click for larger view Let us see how the game actually went.
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DSB sac was a jackpot. Even I can turn lucky! I virtually gave up but for my promise to <morf>. For reasons of self-esteem and absurd pride I wont tell you how much time I have taken on it today. |
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Dec-25-11
| | sevenseaman: I forgot to integrate my complete line;
<15. Bxh6 gxh6 16. Bxe6 Ne5 17 dxe5 Nd5 18. Qg6+ Kh8 19. Qxh6+ Kg8 20. Qg6+ Kh821. 21. Bxf7 Nf6 22. exf6 Bxf6 23, Qh6#> |
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Dec-25-11
 | | Once: Confused. If this was cooked back in 2004, why are we getting it as a puzzle again? Is there a win after 15. Bxh6 c5? |
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Dec-25-11
| | sevenseaman: <Magic Castle> I disagree with the annotation of black's move at move 17....Nd5. If, 17...fe6, the correct continuation is: 18. Qg6+...Kh8 19. ef6...Bf8. 20. Ne4...c5. 21. f7 <Not Ng5> (threatening Qg8#) Bg7 (forced) 22. Nf6 (Threat Qh7#) Bf6 (forced). 23. Qh6#> Totally agreed. |
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| Dec-25-11 | | polarx: Did not get this one. Thought 15. Bxe6, fxe6 16. Qg6 did the trick. Overlooked 16...Nxe5. |
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Dec-25-11
 | | morfishine: Its the Holiday Season, a time for giving. So lets give away as many pieces as possible: <15.Nxf7 Kxf7 16.Bxe6+ Kxe6 17.Qb3+ Nd5> Here <al wazir> is right as 17...Kf5 allows 18.Qf7 and an eventual King Hunt <18.e4 Nf6 19.exd5+ Nxd5 20.Ne4 Qxd4 21.Qh3+ Kf7 22.Qf5+ Kg8 23.Be5 Qb6 24.Qg6 Bf8 25.Nc5 Bc8 26.Ne6 Bxe6 27.Qxe6+ Kh7 28.Rxc6>
click for larger view
Time to stop. After all, its time to open gifts and celebrate Christmas and besides, by now, I know its not what white played. Sure was fun getting here though. Nice job <sevenseaman>! A study in perseverance |
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| Dec-25-11 | | mohannagappan: i have not seen my favourite dzechel comments merry chirstmas |
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Dec-25-11
| | sevenseaman: <morfishine> In your convivial mood you have indeed created a rambunctious line. I wish you had considered a slight deviation at your 20th move for White. It goes swimmingly. <15.Nxf7 Kxf7 16.Bxe6+ Kxe6 17.Qb3+ Nd5
18.e4 Nf6 19.exd5+ Nxd5 20.Ne4 Qxd4 21.Qh3+ Kf7 22.Qf5+ Kg8 23.Be5 Qb6 24.Qg6 Bf8 25.Nc5 Bc8 26.Ne6 Bxe6 27.Qxe6+ Kh7 28.Rxc6> Instead of <20. Ne4> if you continue; <20. Rfe1+ Kd7 21. Qh3+ Ke8 22. Rc7> creates quite a ruckus. Black Q has to throw itself into the raging fire. <22...Qxc7 23. Bxc7 Rd7 24. Qh5+> and a White win looks close. You tell me how you'll go about it. |
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| Dec-25-11 | | erniecohen: <Once> Agreed, there is no win for White after 15...c5. Why are we getting this puzzle again? |
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Dec-25-11
 | | DarthStapler: I didn't get it, I kept getting caught up trying to analyze Nxf7 |
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| Dec-25-11 | | Penguincw: An insane puzzle here. I was thinking of 15. g6 fxg6 16. xe6+ f8 17. xg6 (somewhere along those lines). It seems to get nowhere though.
click for larger view |
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Dec-25-11
| | Once: I've had Fritz chewing on it for nearly four hours. It's a level game after 15. Bxh6 c5. The most that Fritzie can find is = 0.20. |
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| Dec-25-11 | | rilkefan: <<Once>:If this was cooked back in 2004, why are we getting it as a puzzle again?> It's the War on Christmas in America you may have read about. |
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Dec-25-11
 | | Marmot PFL: I was looking at Nxf7, or Bxe6 followed by Qxg6 and Bxh6, rather than Bxh6 right away. Declining the bishop sac with c5 is one reason I preferred the others but they seem to just fall short. |
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Dec-25-11
 | | johnlspouge: < <Once> wrote: I've had Fritz chewing on it for nearly four hours. It's a level game after 15. Bxh6 c5. The most that Fritzie can find is = 0.20. > Toga 3.1 concurs. After 1 hour, Toga evaluates the position at 0.21 P with 19 plies. |
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Dec-25-11
| | James D Flynn: I never considered 15.Bxh6 the sacs on e6 and f7 looked obvious. I started with 15.Bxe6 f7xe6 16.Q6 when Rf8 loses to Bxh6 and the B on e7 is threatened. The reply Nxe5 looks best although Bf8 is also possible. 16.....Nxe5 17.d4xe5 Ne8 18.Qxe6ch Kf8 and white can draw with Qf5ch but 19.Bxh6 c5 leads to exchanges where white has 4 pawns for a piece with a very unclear ending. Therefore I tried 15.Nxf7 Kxf7 if Qf5 Nf8 holds everything so 16.Bxe6ch Kxe6 17.Qg6 Nf8 18.Qxg7 Kd7 19.e4 Re8 20.e5 Nf6)h7 21.Rd1 R{h)d8 22.d5 Kc8 23.d6 Bg5 24.Nd5 Qa5 25.b4 Rd7 26.Qxd7ch Kxd7 27.b4xa5 c6xd5 28.Bxg5 Nxg5 29.Rc7ch Kd8 30.Rxb7 and white will win this ending easily. Obviously there are a myriad of other possible continuations but black will have to give back at least one of his 2 extra pieces with the white rooks and central pawns chasing his K and will remain down many pawns. |
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