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Alexey Shirov vs Olivier Renet
Match (1991), Correze FRA, rd 3
Nimzo-Indian Defense: Saemisch Variation (E25)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 35 times; par: 40 [what's this?]

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sac: 26.Qxh7+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-04-07  ellhares: (22.f5) is a strong move by shirov but black here gave a very bad replay(22...♘d5??) black must take the pawn here(22..♙f5)then after ♗f4!black play ♕g8he is in bad position now but he can hold on against white attack with24.♘g5! also shirov had the choice at move 22 to play ♗b4! with avery good position . so black mad his end queqley after the horrible22...♘d5 and the rest were easy for shirov!.
Sep-04-07  Billosky: This would have been a bit more of a puzzle, perhaps a "Wednesday," if we had been asked to find W's 25th move, since it's crucial to exchange the Rs before sac-ing the Q.
Sep-04-07  TheaN: 2/2.

I'm not going into variations, as there aren't any in this play. Black will lose a piece as the Rook cannot defend the Knight to avoid check. Although it can attack White's Knight (Rd8), White will win with the simple Bxd5+.

Sep-04-07  TheaN: <This would have been a bit more of a puzzle, perhaps a "Wednesday," if we had been asked to find W's 25th move, since it's crucial to exchange the Rs before sac-ing the Q.>

I think it is a candidate for a Tuesday on move 25. Now, the Queen sac is just too obvious (at least, IMO). It's less obvious one move back, but still pretty forced.

Sep-04-07  rookattack: can someone explain what happens after 22.f5 exf5 23.Ng5 Rxe1+ 24.Rxe1 Rf8
Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, the decoy pseudo-sacrifice of the Queen with 26. Qxh7+ sets up a winning Knight Fork and Double attack combination.

After 28. Nxd6, Black's Rook and Knight are enprise and he can't protect both of them. So facing decisive material loss he resigns.

Sep-04-07  TopaLove: People who didnt find this one should retire.
Sep-04-07  nimzo knight: <mallocks><gus inn> <willyfly> Such sacrifices are often referred to as "sham sacrifice".
Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: I hereby announce my retirement, I had a good run, had a lot of fun, but man, I just don't get it.
Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Got it. I saw the potential queen-winning knight fork right away, which was being prevented by the g8 bishop.

Looking for a way to deflect the bishop, I noticed 26. Qxh7+, but at first I thought it simply won a pawn, which didn't seem quite satisfying enough.

But then I looked a little deeper, and after 26. Qxh7+ Bxh7 27. Nf7+, we force 27...Kg8 -- restoring the pin on black's Nd5, which, after 28. Nxd6, is no longer guarded by the queen.

I just had to satisfy myself that white can really win a piece after 28...Rd8, but 29. Bxd5+ Kf8 30. Bxc6 seems to clinch it.

Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <WannaBe: I hereby announce my retirement, I had a good run, had a lot of fun, but man, I just don't get it.>

If you had a lot of fun, then <man, you got it>!

Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: <uuft> Congrats on beating your dad! Did he cut off your allowances afterwards? =)

Re: this puzzle, funny thing is, according to Shredder, Qxh7+ <could> be played earlier, resulting in a very minute difference.

Alexey Shirov - Olivier Renet, Correze
Analysis by Shredder 10:

1. (7.61): 25.Rxe8 Rxe8 26.Qxh7+ Bxh7 27.Nf7+ Kg8 28.Nxd6 Kf8 29.Bxd5 Rd8 30.Rf1+ Ke7 31.Bxc6 bxc6 32.Bg5+ Kxd6 33.Bxd8 Bg8 34.Kf2 c5 35.dxc5+

2. (7.54): 25.Qxh7+ Bxh7 26.Nf7+ Kg8 27.Nxd6 Rxe1+ 28.Rxe1 Bg6 29.Bxd5+ Kh7 30.Bxc6 bxc6 31.Rc1 Rb8 32.Rxc6 Rb3 33.a4 Rd3 34.Bc3 Rd1+ 35.Kf2

Sep-04-07  Fezzik: Chess definitions are tricky. A combination is generally considered to be a series of moves that involves a temporary investment of material for a larger return of material or a mating attack.

A sacrifice (a "true" sacrifice) is a combination that does not give an immediate return of material or a mating attack.

A sacrifice is considered to be "sound" if the compensation is clear or if computers later prove it to be merely a complicated combination. Unsound sacrifices may still be winning moves, especially if your name was Mikhail Tal! :)

The great game, Byrne-Fischer, should be considered to be a great combination, but not a true sacrifice. Fischer saw the combination to the end and saw that he was winning.

Most gambits are a type of sacrifice and the gambiteer should play that way. In other words, a gambiteer should not seek merely to regain the material s/he invested but to gain compensation beyond the investment.

Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <uuft> Congratulations! It was many years ago, but I still remember the first time I beat my dad. It's a great moment. :-)
Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I was looking for a smothered mate,then I saw that the check at f7 would gain a pawn and puy even more material in danger.

Like yesterday,the bishop was overworked today,it looks like a bad week for the clergy,lol

Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <A sacrifice (a "true" sacrifice) is a combination that does not give an immediate return of material or a mating attack.

A sacrifice is considered to be "sound" if the compensation is clear or if computers later prove it to be merely a complicated combination. >

Yes, I've heard this qualification in the definition of a "sacrifice" before, but personally, I don't use it.

I dislike like definitions that are vague or subjective. What is "immediate"? What is "clear"? What constitutes a "computer proof"?

I prefer to say a sacrifice is simply surrendering material to gain some compensation. Whether that compensation turns out to be material or positional doesn't matter (in fact, it might be one or the other depending on how the game plays out).

I often think of material & positional compensation as analogous to kinetic & potential energy. One can be converted into the other.

I would say, however, that some sacrifices are more <speculative> than others. These are usually made to gain the initiative or relieve pressure or create complications, without seeing a definite way to proceed beyond that.

Sep-04-07  Magic Castle: <Beginner64> You can also try after 28....Rd8 29. Nxb7 Rd7 30. Nc5 (if 29...Rd6 30. Bf6 Rd8 31. Bc7 etc.. and black is devastated)So 29...Rd8 30. Ne6 Rd6 31. Nf4 and the knight will fall with check, if the king does not move. From here it is so easy to see the other combinations.
Sep-04-07  Imaslowlearner: < rookattack: can someone explain what happens after 22.f5 exf5 23.Ng5 Rxe1+ 24.Rxe1 Rf8 > A nasty N fork check at f7 which wins the exchange for White (RxN, BxR), but Black gets back on track with Qxd4 check, 28. QxQ, NxQ or 28. Qe3 Ne5 (to set up a fork similar to the one in this game should White capture Black's Queen). White would be up the exchange, less a pawn.
Sep-04-07  Imaslowlearner: <ellhares: (22.f5) is a strong move by shirov but black here gave a very bad replay(22...d5??) black must take the pawn here(22..f5)then after f4!black play g8he is in bad position now > I disagree that 22. f5 is a strong move by Shirov, as having looked at it for a half hour or so, I can see but just one purpose, which is to give White a passed pawn (an isolated one at that). Had Black played correctly, as you pointed out, he would have two pawn islands to White's four, and while somewhat cramped after 23. Bf4 Qf8 (not the magical Qg8 you proposed), he is better off than having declined the pawn as he did.
Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  dzechiel: <You Rang: I prefer to say a sacrifice is simply surrendering material to gain some compensation...

I would say, however, that some sacrifices are more <speculative> than others.>

Yup, that's exactly the way I feel. Giving up material (except in the opening when it's called a "gambit") is a sacrifice, even it you get it back right away.

Sep-04-07  PAWNTOEFOUR: now this was one of those puzzles that was truly easy...first i thought about the possibility of a smothered mate,but overall i'm satisfied with my performance today
Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  fm avari viraf: This is a simple fork trick 26.Qxh7+ Bxh7 27.Nf7+ Kg8 28.Nxd6 that allows White to win more material & the game.Thank you guys for your lovely post on "Definition of Sacrifice".
Sep-04-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: My favorite online source for chess definitions is http://www.angelfire.com/games5/che.... It's source is US Master Pete Prochaska.
Sep-04-07  mallocks: Well, just another post to say thanks to all who replied to my question, it's appreciated :)
Jul-27-12  LoveThatJoker: Guess-the-Move Final Score:

Shirov vs O Renet, 1991.
YOU ARE PLAYING THE ROLE OF SHIROV.
Your score: 49 (par = 40)

LTJ

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