< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Apr-04-07|| ||Thrajin: <BadTemper: Just because I insinuate that he is American, doesn't mean that I imply that all Americans are retarded bigots. Why can't the probability of him being American suggest merely that a higher proportion of American's are such; Not all of course.> But you are saying that there are more retarded bigots, proportionally, in the U.S. than anywhere else. There's nothing "mere" about that - you could have avoided argument entirely by not bringing up the issue of nationality. People from around the world use this site, and many of us feel that chessgames.com is a close-knit community; a family of sorts. Let's try to keep it that way, please.|
|Apr-04-07|| ||BadTemper: <Loftus>
double touche, but i never used the words those two words.. but I won't quibble, I stand corrected.
Still, censorship of nonsense gets me riled.
|Apr-04-07|| ||artemis: Thrajin: I believe the point he was making is that political correctness is overblown in the United States. In fact, it is so much so that a sports commentator ( a while ago) suggested that a division 1 college male tennis player could beat the top ranked professional woman's player, he was called out as being sexist. If memory serves, there was more than one such match, one of which the college player won. Despite this reality, the commentator was being called sexist. (someone else might know the facts better. I am not positive that the college player ever won one of the matches, but the point remains that person who claimed that this was the case was basing his judgement on comparing the abilities of the players, not on gender) The United States has a very great problem regarding political correctness.|
|Apr-04-07|| ||BadTemper: <artemis>
thank you sir. that's what I was trying to get at.
|Apr-04-07|| ||artemis: The Pawn and Dr. Lector: If the childeren get the pun, then it is not chessgames.com's fault. There is a childeren's movie, "Robin Hood Men in Tights" in which there are repeated sexual references, including one where it turns out that a key to a CHASTITY BELT fits, and the comment is "Its not whether or not it fits, but its how you use it!" I watched this when I was a little kid, and my parents burst out laughing at this line. I didn't get it, even though I was exposed to it. Now, being older, I can appreciate the joke. In fact, the class whose name is referenced in today's pun is being offered at a younger and younger age now. I am certain that there are kids who would get the pun, but not understand any of the implications, simply because they know that there is a class called Sex Ed.|
|Apr-04-07|| ||Thrajin: <BadTemper>, You're a true gentleman. I too believe that ignorance and morality don't mesh well. One must be informed to the fullest; only then can they make a true choice.|
<artemis>, I see your point. My gripe has nothing to do with political correctness, only about assuming that someone who is ignorant is also probably American. While I do agree that the U.S. (yes, I am American, by accident of birth) is full of ignorance, I think it is also ignorant to make generalizations which have no factual basis. To put it more clearly, I would not like to be counted amongst the ranks of those Americans who may indeed be full of ignorance, particularly "willful ignorance", which is the worst, most fundamental, and hateful type.
|Apr-04-07|| ||BadTemper: <artemis>
gosh, I don't even think I understand any of the implications. and I went to College AND University.
|Apr-04-07|| ||BadTemper: Just started a new game collection, go check it out.|
|Apr-04-07|| ||artemis: Thrajin: I think I understand, and, I am also an American.|
I think that the political correctness can lead to the more profound and despicable willful ignorance that you mention. If we have it ingrained into our culture that if it is wrong then it shouldn't be mentioned, than it is bad.
true to his name, I think <BadTemper>'s posts were hyperbolic, but they got his point across. I read their meaning as being far subdued from the actual words, and it seems from the following discussion that I was correct in doing so (for once!).
As for the assumption that was inferred that ignorance=American, well, I did not know such an opinion existed, and I am an american, so I proved the rule;).
In all seriousness though, there does seem to be an anti-intellectual element in the United States that is far more pronounced than in other parts of the world, at least as far as I have seen. I would love to continue this conversation, but I looked at the time, and realized that I am going to be late for class if I type too much more. so long and thanks for all the chess.
|Apr-04-07|| ||kevin86: A good finish by Short in a game that is not... It looks like the white king will march up and force the rook to give himself up for the pawn. The black bishop is hemmed in andunable to change the game at all.|
|Apr-04-07|| ||Thrajin: I'll type one last comment to you on this subject, artemis; perhaps you will read it later:|
Much of the anti-intellectual element of which you speak, in my opinion, can be classified as Extreme Nationalism. Americans, from a young age, are taught that our country is the only country that is truly free, and that our superior values have propelled us into the realm of superpowerdom (if there is such a word!). We are encouraged to buy domestic products to stimulate our economy and to support American institutions, which is not a bad thing; however, there is a snobbish attitude that is closely associated with this - we tend to look down on the "outside world", to think we are somehow better simply through luck (accident of birth), and we even have horrible misconceptions about entire cultures whom we do not even attempt to understand (willful ignorance). If that isn't Nationalism, then Nationalism doesn't exist.
As an American, it hurts to be lumped into this category, because there are many of us who do actually give a damn about mankind. Perhaps my views are narrow due to my personal experiences, but I doubt it - consider this: Ask any non-American about the U.S.A. and I guarantee that the vast majority will know quite a bit about our culture, customs, etc. Then ask a random American about culture in Iraq - if you are fortunate enough to find someone who doesn't actually hate brown people, you will still probably be less than satisfied with their level of knowledge of the culture, aside from what they may have gleaned from CNN War correspondents. // end rant. Let's get back to 'Sax on the Beach', shall we?
|Apr-04-07|| ||realbrob: Don't you think all this mess about "Sax Education" is a bit exaggerated? I also thought of "Sex Education" but these titles are just puns, sometimes they're clever and sometimes they aren't. Maybe THEPawn just wanted to make a joke and I don't see why we should start all these big discussions about nationalism and the unjustified pride of our sexuofobical Western society, they're nice and respectable but maybe a little bit unappropriate.|
What I saw is a nice game by Nigel Short who managed to exploit at best his queenside pawn majority.
|Apr-04-07|| ||BadTemper: if he was joking, then my very very bad.
p.s. sexuofobical? if that's a word, bravo.
|Apr-04-07|| ||THE pawn: <Badtemper> <moodini> <Xuorarch>|
Omg! What the hell is this, off course it was a joke! Like I care what children are reading! Especially when it's a low level pun.
You obviously have a badtemper, so I won't start arguing.
|Apr-04-07|| ||schnarre: <artemis> How many Mel Brooks fans have we got on this site anyhow? (I admit to having watched Spaceballs a few hours ago) -lol|
|Apr-04-07|| ||al wazir: Back to chess for a moment, if no one minds. Why is this game over?|
As I see it, after 53...Kc7 (or any other move), white plays 54. Rg6, threatening 55. Ra6 and 56. Ra8. The only way for black to stop this is to give up his own in exchange for the on b7 and the .
So the game might proceed 54...Rxb7 55. Nxb7 Kxb7:
click for larger view
Now if white tries to checkmate by bringing his forward and pushing black's to the eighth rank, it doesn't work. After 56. Kb5 d3 57. Rg7+ Kc8 58. Kc6 Kd8 59. Kd6, black plays 59...e4+:
click for larger view
Then the game continues 60. Kc6 d2 61. Rd7+ Ke8 62. fxe4. Now white has to give up his e- in exchange for black's d- or else bring his back to block the d- from promotion.
So maybe white doesn't try for the checkmate. Instead, he can plop his on e4 and then trade his for the and two of black's s. Starting from the position in my first diagram, it goes 56. Kd3 Kc7 57. Ke4 Kd7 58. Rf7 Ke7 59. Rxf4 exf4 60. Kxf4 d3 61. Ke3 Kf6 62. Kxd3 Kf5:
click for larger view
This looks like a win for white: 63. Ke3 h5 64. Kd2 (64. Ke2 Kf4) Ke5 65. Ke3.
But maybe there's a simpler way to win. Can somebody post it?
|Apr-04-07|| ||BadTemper: <ThePAWN>
actually my temper may be bad, but it takes very very much to activate it.
i call it compensation.
|Apr-04-07|| ||Thrajin: <BadTemper> Perhaps next time I should develop all my brain cells before launching an attack, eh? But I might sacrifice one or two of them for the initiative.|
|Apr-04-07|| ||tpstar: <al wazir> 53 ... Kc7 54. Rg6 Rxb7? 55. Rg7+ & 56. Nxb7 wins.|
All this great intercourse is making me excited. We shouldn't be too hard on their puns, since it's a rough trick finding new material every day. You might remember "Sax and the City" Sax vs Nunn, 1984 yet you missed out on the discarded entry "No Sax Please, We're British."
Hey, it could always be worse. Don't want no Short Short man.
|Apr-04-07|| ||nimzo knight: <Thrajin> and <artemis> It was really interesting to read your comments. They kind of fall in line with my views too. When I moved to United States I could feel a huge section of society is almost completely ignorant about the world outside. Although I still hate when people try to stereotype that all americans are ignorant, for some of them are more aware than average of most other places.|
I didnt get my early education in US. But it was easy to feel that people have grown up with the idea that america is the best place to live and we have taught the whole world about democracy and free speech. Though anyone who has lived in a western european country knows by many factors quality of life is much better there (none of american cities show up in top places to live in). Not that there is anything wrong about not being the best place to live in, I personally love boston more than any city I have been too. At the same time one should be aware about other places in the world.
Same about democracy ... even in 21st century america is debating about can we have a black president ? Can we actually call america a true democracy before civil rights. Can a truly democractic country be at a war of which only 30% of its people approve.
Of course, all places in world have problems with their goverments but people there dont seem to live in any illusions.
Watch Paula Zahn show tonight at 8pm EST. Thats another american evil which goes unaddressed. The amount of racial segregation which is simply shocking.
|Apr-04-07|| ||Thrajin: <nimzo knight>: I couldn't agree with you more about Paula Zahn. Still, she's not nearly as extreme as Ann Coulter. ;-)|
|Apr-04-07|| ||realbrob: <BadTemper: p.s. sexuofobical? if that's a word, bravo. > Well, I looked up in the dictionary and sexuofobic does exist, and as you all know it means "afraid about sex" (ancient greek "fobos", fear). Maybe sexuofobical is a neologism of my invention, but that's the meaning..|
|Apr-04-07|| ||Thrajin: <realbrob>, that is interesting. I would have imagined it would be spelled "sexuophobic", but what do I know. Neologism indeed...|
|Apr-04-07|| ||Ashram64: such a cheezy corny pun-line|
|Apr-04-07|| ||al wazir: <tpstar>: Thanks, but that doesn't solve the problem. Suppose black postpones the trade: 53...Kc7 54. Rg6 Kd7 55. Ra6 Kc7 56. Ra8 Rxb7 57. Nxb7 Kxb7. Now white is again up an exchange, but he still has to find a way to win.|
Instead, white might move his to b6 and try to drive away the black by playing Nc6. But what is the black d- doing while this is going on?
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