< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 6 ·
|Apr-12-11|| ||patzer2: From the diagrammed position, as <al wazir> correctly observes, Spassky's winning combination begins with the demolition attack 30. Rxf7!! Bxf7 31. Rf1! Be8 32. Qc8 when the pin on the Bishop will win back the temporarily sacrificed material with a winning attack on the exposed King position.|
I had forgotten my speculative idea of 30. Ne4!? from 2004, which now appears to fizzle out after 30...Rc6! 31. Qf4! e5! 32. Qe3 Rxc8 33. Qxc1 .
This time around, I also forgot about Spassky's fine demolition sham sacrifice 30. Rxf7!! and decided I would try 30. Rb1 as my solution, with the idea of simply supporting and pushing the Queen side pawns. Running it through Fritz it seems to win without much difficulty.
P.S.: Since this is supposed to be an "easy" Tuesday puzzle, I wonder if chessgames.com meant to post the real 27. ? puzzle position, where 27. Qe5! is a strong double attack, simultaneously threatening mate on g7 and the unprotected Rook on c7.
|Apr-12-11|| ||sevenseaman: <Once> The snooker and pool analogy is apt. I play billiards and snooker and it appealed to me.|
Only the other day I was watching a pool match on TV and was amazed to learn 'jump shot' is allowed in pool.
You are a multi-dimensional thinker!
|Apr-12-11|| ||ZUGZWANG67: White is up the exchange and has pressure against f7. Also, the BQ and R are poorly placed and the BB is hanging.|
I just don't get this one. I can't convince myself that 27.Rxf7 Bxf7 28.Rf1 Be8 29.Qc8 is what I must find. For a moment I thought about 27. Rh3 and 28.Ne4, trying to foresee something like an Arabic mate, but this doesn't work.
Bizarre. I dis not notice the contradiction with the diagrams. Now that I read what others had to say, I realize that there was a mistake and that CG probably expected us to find 27.Qe5.
|Apr-12-11|| ||fyjx: 30. ..Na4 wins the exchange of knight for rook, but wouldn't lead immediately to a win.|
|Apr-12-11|| ||joupajou: Brilliant tactical play by Spassky. Wow!
Like <Once> points out, black is indeed "snookered" after 29. ..Be8.
Looks like Spassky was playing with his prey, if you don't mind the comparision.
|Apr-12-11|| ||molinov: <fyjx: 30. ..Na4 wins the exchange of knight for rook, but wouldn't lead immediately to a win> I also thought of that initially. But actually after 30....Rc6!! white is completely lost.|
|Apr-12-11|| ||DarthStapler: I didn't get it, I thought Nd5 exd5 (if Qxd5 Qxb6) Ra3 Qb4 or b5 Rb3 wins the rook on b6 but now I see he could play Qd2 instead of Qb4 or Qb5|
|Apr-12-11|| ||joupajou: After 12.Rc1
click for larger view
12. ..Qa5!? She stayed there until the bitter end.
Would 12. ..h6 be better for black in the long run?
|Apr-12-11|| ||cocker: Come on <Chessgames>! Which was intended, the position or the move number?|
|Apr-12-11|| ||drleper: An alternative to the game continuation is 30.Qc8 Kf8 then 31.Rxf7+ which can lead to a side line 31…Kxf7 32.Rf1+ Ke7 33. Qc7+ Bd7 34.Rc1 with Nc3 doing a nice job watching a4 and b5.|
|Apr-12-11|| ||ddaniell: yeah <drleper> i got that one, seems to transpose as the Ke7 line is a lot worse for black. Hardest Tuesday i have known for a long while!|
|Apr-12-11|| ||chesssantosh: <dzchiel> <once> and others,how do u know that puzzle is white to play at 30?because its clearly written on home page that its white to move at 27 though it is at 30.does it mean you guys remember the position of puzzle instead of move no and play the game through until that position comes and then only writes your kibitz including the move no.i guess <dzchiel> does not do so as he writes his thought in notepad next to home page puzzle.|
very curious to know that how you know the no of move different from what is given in home page.thanks in advance!!!
|Apr-12-11|| ||OhioChessFan: Hardest part of the puzzle was finding the right move. <chessantosh> I usually solve the positions by looking at the position on the homepage. Then I come to the gamepage and click on the same move. The homepage has a diagram of White to play his 30th move, though the text says 27th move. Clicking on the 27th move on this page, it's obviously not the same position and the game isn't yet at the diagram position on the homepage. So a few clicks ahead on the game, and there it is.|
|Apr-12-11|| ||OhioChessFan: <unferth: I played it from there too. happy to say I found Rxf7 followed by Rf1, but it did seem a bit much for a monday.>|
That's because it's Tuesday. I know I've had a tough time with early in the week positions before and then see everyone else say how easy they were. Today I thought it was rather simple, <especially> in a puzzle position, and I am surprised that this was difficult at all.
|Apr-12-11|| ||ChessieGuy: @ once and dzechiel and some others: you didn't get this? 'Analyzing' for dummies: 1)Go to the home page of CG, look at the puzzle and neglect whether it's move 244 or 7 or 27 or maybe 30. Also neglect whether it's a game between Kasparov-Karpov or what ever they say at ChessGames. Neglect the shape of the board and the colors used. Just look at the puzzle or take your home-board and set up the position. Do not write on a piece of paper 'move-no 27' and place it near your chess board. No need for that. Trust me. 2) Analyse the position, like you do so when you play for real, but now whitout any clock. You know that don't you, playing a game for 'real'? 3) And then when you think you've got it or when you've had enough, go to the game 4)and post your comment and all of your analyses. 5) Now check whether you were right on the chessgames site. If so, you can go on and give yourself 8 or 10 points or buy some new shoes or whatever you do. If not right, only THEN use Frits or Rybka etc to actually prove that your solution wasn't right.
@ chesssantosh: i totally agree!
I really don't understand how sometimes some of you understand the most difficult sunday end-game puzzle, and then get blown away by the number 27 on tuesday...like dûûûûh!
|Apr-12-11|| ||solskytz: (to Molinov) why is White completely lost after 30. Na4 Rc6 (!!) ?|
I see 31. Qf4 (to cover c1) and then if ...Rxc1+ 32. Qxc1 Qxa4 I see 33. Rf4, picking up a piece again and staying up material (although it is true that the Black Queen can still console herself by picking up the a-pawn through 33...Qxa2 in this variation).
My own "solskytz 5.0" gives a value of 1.56 to the resulting position - I think white should win this, but not without a struggle.
Other Black answers that don't lose the exchange on 30. Na4 would be either 30...Ra6 or 30...Rb5 - but they don't pick up a pawn, so 30...Rc6 is probably better
Goes without saying that 30. Na4 is nowhere as good as the elegantly powerful (although unable to dance) 30. Rxf7. Greetings from solskytz.
hmmm... just before posting the solskytz algorithm discovers 30. Na4 Rc6 31. Qf4 Qxa4 right away... this changes the evaluation in the engine - but now this engine needs to take a shower, so therefore -
* * * end of kibitzing * * *
|Apr-12-11|| ||solskytz: Hey wait!!
30. Na4 Rc6 (!!) 31. Qf4 Qxa4 - and now how about 32. Rxc6 Qxc6 33. Rc3? Looks like the black Q needs another "snooker move" to protect the Bh4, n'est-ce pas?
(then some 30 sec. later...)
ah, no... enough defensive possibilities for Black while still keeping the piece... 33...g5 comes to mind, or 33...Qd5...
The engine is overworked and it's really time for that shower. Going to switch it off now, for real...
|Apr-12-11|| ||Tigranny: I noticed that too al wazir.|
|Apr-12-11|| ||Phony Benoni: The position at White's 30th move was used as a puzzle before on Saturday, 5/22/2004. That seems more the usual run of things.|
It looks like it was also used on Monday, 4/7/2003, but that was very early in Daily Puzzle history and the accepted order may not have been established then.
27.? is not really a puzzle of any kind, and 30.? is very difficult. Very confusing.
|Apr-12-11|| ||pittpanther: I also thought today was pretty tough for a Tuesday. I did see the game continuation after looking at the board for several minutes. Tuesday usually only requires 1-2 minutes. I would rate this a Wed. puzzle or maybe Thursday.|
|Apr-12-11|| ||goodevans: I'm pretty sure that CG.com meant to post the position at move 27 rather than at move 30.|
<OhioChessFan: ... Today I thought it was rather simple>
If you are referring to the position at move 30 then you may be alone in that opinion.
<M.Hassan: "Easy" White to play 27.?
White is a piece behind
27.Qe5 Threatening mate on g7>
I guess most of us tried to solve the position at move 30. One or two chose to solve at move 27.
To my mind it would be difficult to go to the game and click on the right point in the scoresheet without inadvertantly seeing the answer.
|Apr-12-11|| ||TheBish: Spassky vs Averkin, 1973|
White to play (27.?) "Easy"
Well, I did get it, at least the first four moves or so. After way too long of a think for such an "easy" problem! I ended up putting it on Fritz to check, thinking I've suddenly become a "D" player and can't see the forest for the trees (I do have a cold, but not dying). This would have made a great Friday problem! Even Fritz didn't see 30. Rxf7! for quite some time (in computer terms).
Obviously, the diagram does not match the move number, and the intended, yes "easy" move was supposed to be 27. Qe5! winning the rook on c7. But that would have been too easy, and saved me about 45 minutes! I would have gotten that in 2 minutes, and what's the fun in that?
Thanks a lot, GameKnot!
|Apr-12-11|| ||TheBish: Actually, I meant to say I would have found 27. Qe5! in about 2 seconds, not minutes. That's the difference between a Tuesday problem and a Friday or later problem.|
|Apr-12-11|| ||Domdaniel: I love glitches. They illustrate the wide range of behavioral traits among puzzlers. There's always something to be learned from the various ways people react when a normally predictable part of their world fails to conform to expectations.|
Today, for example, I noticed that irony isn't as easy as it looks.
|Apr-12-11|| ||TheBish: I think 26. Bc7! would have been a much better problem (for a Tuesday) -- maybe even would work for Wednesday.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 6 ·