< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Oct-15-12|| ||Phony Benoni: <Abdel Irada: I think <Phony Benoni> can rely upon it that his posts are subjected to critical reading. :-)>|
It was a Monday puzzle, so I figured I'd toss in some Monday analysis.
Seriously, I have to be a bit more careful. Looking at the puzzle is the last thing I do before going to bed, and perhaps I need to reverse the order.
|Oct-15-12|| ||Once: <Oxspawn> Many moons ago I was captain of a works chess team. One day we had a new member who was exceptionally enthusiastic. I mean puppy-dog, tail-wagging, wetting the floor sort of enthusiastic.|
There was this one game where he had played a fairly standard classic bishop sacrifice. Within a few days he had produced an extensive(ish) review of this game, complete with multiple exclamation marks ... for his moves, naturally.
He sent his analysis to me (as captain) with a question: did I think his opponent would like to see his analysis too?
I had to say, ever so gently, that this may be a game that his opponent would like to forget. Oh and, by the way, his bishop sacrifice would also have worked one move earlier.
So yes, I wholeheartedly agree that sometimes we can have a little too much information.
|Oct-15-12|| ||Abulherar: Monday puzzle:very easy
White to play:24.?
24.f8=♕+ ♖xf8 25.♕xf8+ ♘g8....
White has a better position and material.
|Oct-15-12|| ||Abulherar: i have to make a correction!
as in the game:24.♕e8+ is better than 24.f8=♕+ because 24.♕e8+ will cause mate in few moves:
B)24...♖xe8 25.♖xe8+ ♘g8 26.fxg8=♕#
|Oct-15-12|| ||paulalbert: My first instinct was advance the f7 P with some kind of smothered mate idea, but after a few seconds realized that Qe8ch absolutely forces a mate, and I prefer to mate with the R rather than promoting f7 P .|
|Oct-15-12|| ||agb2002: White is a pawn down.
Black threatens Qxb1 and Qxc4.
Black's back rank is very weak. This suggests 24.Qe8+:
A) 24... Rxe8 25.Rxe8+ Ng8 26.Rxg8#.
B) 24... Ng8 25.fxg8=R(Q)#.
|Oct-15-12|| ||gawain: Nice finish. 23 Qe7 was a strong move. I do not understand what Black was thinking with the reply Qc2 except perhaps "If I withdraw my queen from the defense of e8, will my opponent appreciate the nice gift I am offering him?"|
|Oct-15-12|| ||Once: 23...Qc2 seems odd, but it's hard to think what else black could do. Fritzie says that the only move that doesn't lead to a forced mate is 23...Ng8. But after 24. Qxb7 black finds that nearly half of his army are en prise.|
I suppose black may have been thinking that he might yet bluff white into playing a defensive move. He might as well roll the dice as he's losing by oodles anyway.
|Oct-15-12|| ||James D Flynn: Black is 2 pawns up and Whites Q-side is undeveloped but Blacks back rank weakness puts his K in dir danger. 23.Qe7 to take the d7 square away from the Black Q and also to defend the f7 pawn , which is twice attacked and once defended. There is no way to provide an escape square for the K, 23.h6 would be too slow, it takes another move to take the N on g5.
What follows 23.Qe8+? 23.Qe8+ Qxd8 24.Rxd8 Rxd8 25.Rxe8=Q+ Bxe8 therefore one of the 3 pieces Q,R, and B must be forced off. The Q on a5 has only one square to move and stay on the a5–d8 diagonal and can easily be attacked by Nc3( development at last). How can that Q stay o the critical diagonal? Candidates 23.….Nxd5 , Ng8.
23…..Nxd5 24.Bxd5 this is no better for the defense of d8 because N c3 still covers the newly freed b5 square, in addition the g8 square has a new attacker,
23…..Ng8 24.f8=Q(not fxg8=Q+ Rxg8(now the d8 square is attacked twice and defended 3 times, so the Q can cheerfully leave the a5-d8 diagonal.) the Qs now threaten Q(either )xg7# so Rxf8 is forced) Rxf8 25.Qxf8(now White threatens mate in 2 by 26.Ne6 , 27.Qxg7# or 26.Re7 Qxg7#, Black can however, defend g7 by Qa1 it must be played immediately else Nc3 will block the a1-g7 diagonal) Qa1 26.Nf7+ Bxf7 27.Qxf7 amd Black has no defense to 28. Re8 followed by 29.Qxg8#|
|Oct-15-12|| ||kevin86: I went the route of the two queen sac,though the rook capture IS faster:|
24 ♕e8+ ♖xe8 25 fxe8(♕)+ ♗xe8 26 ♖xe8+ ♘g8 27 ♘f7#=smothered mate
Or 24 ♕e8+ ♖xe8 25 ♖xe8+ ♘g8 26 ♖xg8#
take your choice!
|Oct-15-12|| ||kevin86: one queen or two,sir!|
|Oct-15-12|| ||Once: After 24. Qe8+ Rxe8 25. Rxe8+ Ng8, we get to here:
click for larger view
Three ways to mate in one:
So the question has to be ... do you go for the quick and brutal Rxg8#, kicking his knight off the board? Or do you hanker after the symmetry of a two rook mate with 26. fxg8=R#?
Or if you are feeling cruel, 26. Kh2 with mate to follow on the next move. And what you are really hoping for is 26...Bxf7 27. Nxf7#
click for larger view
This has to be one of the most crushing positions we have seen on POTD for a long long time...
|Oct-15-12|| ||chrisowen: Off the top of my head I would donkey up approach at here 24.Qe8+ potter reel just in case lay it down in (evermore) rookxe8 and coup de grace never look back to feels 25.Rxe8+ the lump sum of the matter eg in e8 being you lent in many different ways to skin a cat here white elects to round off a fine display by the simplest route again fishing for queen gate knight having smothered in g8 l0 wind fxg8# plop.|
|Oct-15-12|| ||geeker: A little bit subtle for Monday! Nice one.|
|Oct-15-12|| ||bachbeet: Got it. With all those white pieces lined up to check, I did have to check to see if there was a quicker way to mate. Finally settled on the winning moves. That black bishop posed a threat but could be eliminated by promoting the pawn on a dark square (g8 after black blocks with the knight).|
|Oct-15-12|| ||YouRang: They don't come much easier that this folks. Really, 24.Qe8+ and 24.f8=Q+ both mate quickly (although the latter involves slightly more thought).|
|Oct-15-12|| ||BOSTER: <Once> <Today we have a position, where white has at least <nine> different <key> moves ,which end in mate>.|
At least this is not <9 1/2> to be a masterpiece.
It's not difficult to criticize the black pos. with Fritz. Black really created the mess in his pos.,when white could win the game even without touch queen's bishop and knight.
But, if you played vs Speelman, I don't think you had a better game.
|Oct-15-12|| ||gars: Praise The Lord for the Mondays!|
|Oct-15-12|| ||stst: too many ways for W to win,
(A)Qe8+ RxQ, fxR promotes to Q+,#
(B)Qe8+ RxQ, RxR#
(C)f8=Q+ RxQ, QxR#
|Oct-15-12|| ||Once: <BOSTER> I thought you'd kicked the habit of trying to pick fault with everything I say. It's a hobby of sorts, I suppose. Whatever keeps you happy.|
But just for the record, let's try to explain what ought to be fairly self-explanatory. If you read what I actually wrote, you'll see that I don't criticise black's play at all. I don't claim to have been able to play better. I am not claiming that white wins with any sequence of stupid moves.
What I am doing is commenting on the position as an abstract position. It is interesting that white's position is so overwhelming that he has so many ways to win. Even playing a pass move. I cannot recall another position where both players have so many choices but none of them stop the mate.
Well, when I say it is interesting, I ought to say that I find it interesting. A damn sight more interesting than taking random potshots at fellow kibitzers.
But then we've all got to have hobbies, haven't we?
|Oct-15-12|| ||tbentley: 24. Kh1! Bxf7 25. Nxf7+ Kg8 26. Nxh6+ gxh6 27. Qxd6 Qxc1 28. Rxc1 Re8 29. Qg3+ Kf7 30. d6+ Nd5 31. Bxd5+ Re6 32. Qf4+ Kg7 33. Bxe6 Kg6 34. Qf5+ Kg7 35. Qf7+ Kh8 36. Qg8# (there are some variations, of course) This seems too hard for Monday.|
Oh, Rybka finds at least 10 moves that mate faster, including my actual solution of Qe8+.
|Oct-15-12|| ||BOSTER: <Once> <White's pos. has so many ways to win>.|
You are right. Read <tbentley> <24.Kh1!>
|Oct-15-12|| ||al wazir: I found the game line, but the line I saw first also seems to win: 24. f8=Q+ Rxf8 (24...Ng8 25. Qxg7#) 25. Qxf8+ Ng8 26. Ne6, and black cannot stop Qxg7#. He can only postpone it with spite checks or by playing 26...Qb2/Qc3.|
|Oct-16-12|| ||Once: <BOSTER> And this is what I said, way back on page 1 of the kibitzing ...|
<To make it even sillier, I started to experiment with "pass moves" like 24. Kh1 and 24. g3. And it turns out that they also force mate (admittedly in 15 moves or so).>
|Oct-16-12|| ||TheSlid: Weakness of the Last Move, as Tryfon likes to say!
In a fairly horrid position, 23...Qc2 removes a defender of the key square at e8.
In those days, I suspect Jon's hair was longer than this game, comparatively speaking.
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