< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·
|Mar-04-12|| ||Marmot PFL: Decided on 22 Rb3 Qa4 23 Nxf7 Kxf7 24 Qe6+ Kf8 25 Rb7 which looks very promising as Rxe7 is threatened and Ng8 is answered by Bxd6 ed Qxd6+. It seems like less a true Tal sacrifice than just an accurate combination.|
|Mar-04-12|| ||Patriot: <BOSTER> <I'd play 22.Ne6+ creating the weakness on g6, if 22...fxe6 23.dxe6 closing the "e" file , but opening the "f" file.> <The question is: How do you <evaluate> the such obvious <imbalance> in this posusition?>|
I went for 22.Ne6+ as well. But evaluating the position cannot be done because you sac'd a piece and there is still a lot of work to do. The whole thing fails however as I missed some defenses in this complicated line.
|Mar-04-12|| ||Memethecat: <Oxspawn> As usual <Once> is the voice of reason & his veiws are probably quite close to that of most.|
For me, this has absolutely nothing to do with "rules". When you speak to people everyday, you start to build up the normal social dynamics that come with any group of ugly apes. Inevitably, along the way, toes will be stepped upon, just like in the real world. You can 1.Ignore it. 2. Confront It 3.Leave the site. I would normally go for option one, but for some reason have chosen to confront it & then carry on my merry way.
|Mar-04-12|| ||Memethecat: <rilkefan> <it's not constructive to imply he's not. So I suggest you drop it.> No, its not constructive. Your suggestion to drop it will have the opposite effect. so maybe you should drop it!|
|Mar-04-12|| ||chrisowen: <Memethecat> Tals ring-a-ring of roses? |
In bad call 20...qb4 no need languish in kg8 it out foxed in clever it zeal in f7.
Shake the daces isnt it!
|Mar-04-12|| ||chrisowen: Aim i looked at eanling for nxf7 kxf7 rb3 qua4 core in her it offside |
Tal ask in god gift him bless in gild the lily what I browse avid black
queen away rushing mix in knight takes pawn fasheze it almost in geist
f6 un-buckle Speelman tis pray flat in con it an tricky for cajoled it
to mount a thwarted lance in danger it alarm in tremble gash in queen
ravage in e6 e7 lump re3 f3.
|Mar-04-12|| ||chrisowen: H6 in... is it tame nincompoop it's a minute detail queene2 rookse1 e3 |
feck nf7 owl edge Tal you shall give the scarob queen in afore tease
medicine guard f6 crick it enact in cadence turfed in see jack for
droopy in ever it house file gun in e7 knight i gabbed rb3 opening b7
lewd in den im really pressed for every it is tactic in well it shock
for one afraid in creeps it bramble in e7 twice then suffer it's f6 in
sick it as ten for method bishop hanging ate knightg8 ash in bury it the
hatchet re3 row bearing up it tacky jig mack too nf7 and rb3 anvil e6
queen ie jams it dead in good suffer it flush up queenc4 bd6 ace in as
well it dream in kingg7 qxf6+ dine off fin it's wine have g8 and e7 will
fall it remains leave in scuff to be a sting h6.
|Mar-04-12|| ||James D Flynn: 22.Nxf7 Kxf7 23.Rxb3 Qa4 24.Qe3+ Kf8 24.Rb7 Qxc4 25.Bxd6 Qxd5 26.Bxe7+ Rxe7 27.Qxe7+ Kg8 Qxg7# if instead 24……Rad8 25.Rxe7 26 Qxe7+ kg8 28.Qxd8+ with winning material advantage and continuing attack. Black can defend better :
22.Nxf7 g5 23.Bxg5 Kxf7 24.Bxf6 if Bxf6 25.Qe3+ Kf8 26.Rg3 Bg7 Qg6 and mate next; if exf6 25.Rb7+ Kf8 26.Re7 Qxa2 27 Qe6 Rxe6 28.Qxe7+ Kg8 29.Qb7 Rd8 30.Qc7 Rf8 31.Re7 Bh8 32.Qd7 and the Q will check on e6 or g4 forcing mate.|
|Mar-04-12|| ||k.khalil: This was exceedingly difficult. I tried
22. Rxe7 Rxe7
23. Bxd6 Re8
It was bad start.
|Mar-04-12|| ||David2009: Tal vs Speelman, 1988 White 22.? Insane|
Try 22.Bxd6 and now (A) 22...exd6? 23.Nh7+ Kg8 forced 23.Nxf6+ Bxf6 24.Rxe8+ Rxe8 25.Qxe8+ shouold win easily on material; so (B) 22...hxg5 23.Bxe7+ Kg8
24.Qxg5 with three Pawns for the piece. White's threats include 25.d6 followed by d7 and 25.Bxf6. Time to
Missed it. Here's the puzzle position
click for larger view
set up interactively on Crafty End Game Simulator:
My line is a blunder: muddled vision (24.Qxg5 is illegal). Ah well.
Enjoy finding the win inspired by Tal's moves.
|Mar-04-12|| ||David2009: Tal vs Speelman, 1988 postscript: <Jim> is absolutely right. In the position below
click for larger view
24.Rb7! beats Crafty ES, 24.Qe6+ does not. I found this out by accident when (having played through the game but before browsing the kibitzes) I tried the game line against the ES but played 24.Rb7 immediately by mistake. The ES saves its Queen with 24...Qxa2 which (like Speelman's 25...Qxc4) costs that vital defensive tempo, and the White attack crashes through. I haven't checked 24.Qe6+ with an engine to see if it can be made to beat the ES, but all I can manage playing it is perpetual check a Rook down.
|Mar-04-12|| ||James D Flynn: I just looked at my earlier post and found it full of notation errors. Here are the corrections:
22.Nxf7 Kxf7 23.Rb3 Qa4 24.Qe6+ Kf8 24.Rb7 Qxc4 25.Bxd6 Qxd5 26.Bxe7+ Rxe7 27.Qxe7+ Kg8 28.Qxg7# if instead 24……Rad8 25.Rxe7 26 Qxe7+ Kg8 28.Qxd8+ with winning material advantage and continuing attack. Black can defend better :
22.Nxf7 g5 23.Bxg5 Kxf7 24.Bxf6 if Bxf6 25.Qe6+ Kf8 26.Rg3 Bg7 Qg6 and mate next ,; if exf6 25.Rb7+ Kf8 26.Re7 Qxa2 27 Qe6 Rxe7 28.Qxe7+ Kg8 29.Qb7 Rd8 30.Qc7 Rf8 31.Re7 Bh8 32.Qd7 and the Q will check on e6 or g4 forcing mate.|
|Mar-04-12|| ||agb2002: The material is equal.
The position of the black queen suggests the maneuver Rb3-Rb7 combined with a sacrifice on f7. Therefore, 22.Nxf7:
A) 22... Kxf7 23.Rb3 Qa4 24.Qe6+ Kf8 25.Rb7
A.1) 25... Qxc4 26.Bxd6 Ng8 (26... exd6 27.Qf7#) 27.Re4 Qc8+ 28.Kh2 g5 29.Re3 and the threat 30.Rf3+ looks decisive.
A.2) 25... Rad8 26.Rxe7 Rxe7 27.Qxe7+ Kg8 28.Qxd8+ + -.
B) 22... g5 23.Nxg5 hxg5 24.Bxg5 Qb7 25.Bxf6 Bxf6 26.Qh5 with the idea Rg3-Qh6+ and mate in two.
|Mar-04-12|| ||ajile: Wow what a deep line. Amazing anyone could see this over the board.|
|Mar-04-12|| ||DarthStapler: I didn't get it despite the fact that I remember seeing this game before|
|Mar-04-12|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <David 2009> <In the position 24.Rb7!,below, beats Crafty ES, 24.Qe6+ does not.
click for larger view
... The ES saves its Queen with 24...Qxa2 which (like Speelman's 25...Qxc4) costs that vital defensive tempo, and the White attack crashes through.>
There is even more richness to this puzzle. <ernie cohen>, in the earlier kibitzing back in June, found 24...Rab8, below, as better than 24...Qxa2 for black. His post is worth reviewing.
click for larger view
Another minor but still noteworthy observation IMO is that there is difference between playing 22 Nxf7 vs. 22 Rb3.
The reason is that black can follow 22 Rb3 with 22...hxg5!?, in effect giving up his queen for a rook and a knight.
click for larger view
|Mar-04-12|| ||sevenseaman: <Memethecat> You talk of quite a few games. Good that you have accessed that old game where I had rattled off all of 17 moves. |
I remember that day I tried it for myself 3-4 hours later and could only do about 13. My memory is like that. Now it is completely washed out.
Yesterday (its overnight here) when I started with this <Tal - Speelman> puzzle the first thought that came from seeing the famous names was that I may have this game in my collection or have seen it before. But there was no way of knowing unless I opened the game.
I had no clear memory but looking at the home page diagram 2-3 things came to my mind that I reproduce here from my kibitz;
There's a pageant of moves parading in front of my mind's eye. In the order these occurred;
ii) Rb3 but the Q is not trapped but...
I can fairly conjecture it may be none of the above.
Besides it being Tal, Q sac is no taboo. Brilliant! That kicks up an idea or two. I just wonder... One or the other, for sure.
ii) Rxe7 >
I first tried the Rxe7 line. As you will notice I could not make good progress and came upon the problem of Black Q's threat to my e1 R.
That is when I switched to the Nxf7 line. The N was hanging anyway and e1 R had to be protected by keeping the Q on e file as long as possible. The moves slowly started flowing.
These were my thoughts;
<<22. Nxf7 Kxf7 23. Rb3> (in order to push the Q off e1 R and get to the now hot 7th rank) <23...Qa4 only move 24. Qe6+ Kf8 25. Rb7>
The point of having pushed the Black Q off kilter. It would now have liked to be eying e1. The R maneuver has forced it to be satisfied doing the <next best>.
<25...Qxc4 26. Bxd6>
A tactical coup that I saw in the beginning but in a different context. Having made it, it has started looking quite an obvious move now.
Black can now only flail about. Though Ng8 defends e7 and it has to be deemed a very effective move, Black is cornered and hard put to defend.
Ng8 does force White to think of reinforcements.
<26...Ng8 27. Re3> threatens check from f3. 27...Bf6 is an obvious defense, though a bit lame on a/c of the pin that the R move to f3 will create.>
By this I had a strong sense of deja vu. I was not absolutely certain but I suspected I may really have seen the game before. There are myriad ways the human mind works. That is why it was here that I decided to leave (though I still could not be sure).
I started the POTD at 10:30 and was able to post my solution only at 1 P.m. (IST).
Then I followed my suspicion and had to turn some pages before I found my comment of Jun-27-11. It was a nothing comment but it confirmed I had been to the game, though not in my collection. The reason for deja vu.
I do not know whether you'll believe the foregoing, but that is the absolute truth.
I have never tried to peek. There are some poor moves too that sometimes come in but those are my moves. I have never claimed percipience. I never have presumed myself to be clever enough to get away with anything underhand.
I know I am part of an extremely intelligent and a knowledgeable set. I would never expect to fool (a disrespect) them even if I tried my damnedest. Not a trace of dissemblance or dissimulation will escape them.
That is how I look at life in the forum. Trying to be too clever can only be a losing prospect. I know that kind of thing will forfeit anyone the love and affection of the fellow kibitzers, his peers. You just cannot con this lot.
I cannot expect to enjoy the facility if I just read and post the answers. What would I be getting out of it. Everyone sets his own standards of rectitude, morality and conduct. If I am below par no one else is going to reform me. I have to think on my own feet.
So, no matter how confident you feel, your conclusions in my case are hasty and rash. I'll request you to review them.
I do not really feel angry. only disappointed over the impression I have conveyed. There may be others who feel similarly but have not said it in so many words. Perhaps even my closest ones; kind of them.
|Mar-04-12|| ||rilkefan: <sevenseaman> - good answer.|
How is it, if you don't mind saying, that you can find the time and motivation to solve half a thousand puzzles a day or spend an hour and a half on one problem (only stopping because it seemed familiar)? I feel a bit abashed for posting my perhaps 10-minute effort above.
|Mar-04-12|| ||stst: late to game!
Try the main line:
25.Re7 (threatens Qxg7) Nh5
|Mar-05-12|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 22.?- Equal in forces.
<if 26...exd6 27.Qf7#>
<if 29...Rxf6 30.Rexe7 Rxe7 31.Rb8+ Re8
32.Qxe8+ Kg7 33.Qxg8#
Also, the same fate is for Black if White Queen is taken :
29...Rxf7 30.Rexe7 Rxg6 31.Rf7#>
so, back to the game:
33.Qg3 (now that White is ahead in strength, he can afford Queen exchanges)
Black will soon be mated.
|Mar-05-12|| ||BadKnight: looking at the puzzle position i saw the candidate moves Rb3, Nh7+,Nxf7,Rxe7,Bxd6 etc but i had no idea how to play the moves in proper order to make the combination work. its a sunday puzzle so seeing the possible resources is not too bad.|
|Mar-07-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Sunday, March 4th
What more can one say about Tal? He's truly one of the greats. An Olympian as it regards Chess' greatest masters.
<22. Nxf7 Kxf7>
[22...Nxd5 23. cxd5 Kxf7 (23...Qxf4 24. Rf3 Qxf7 25. Rxf7+ Kxf7 26. Qe6+ Kf8 27. Qxg6 ) 24. Rb3! Qd4/Qa4 (24...Qxf4 25. Rf3 ) 25. Qe6+ Kf8 26. Rf3 winning]
<23. Rb3 Qa4>
(23...Nxd5 24. cxd5 wins for White as already demonstrated)
<24. Rb7! Qxa2>
(24...Rab8 25. b3! Qa3 26. Bc1 Qxc1 27. Rxe7+ Rxe7 28. Qxe7+ Kg8 29. Rxc1 ; 24...Nxd5 25. Qe6+ Kf8 26. Qxd5 and White has restored material parity, has an attack, threats on e7 and d6, and a better position overall)
<25. Qe6+ Kf8 26. Bxd6> and White wins due to all the threats along the seventh rank and his excellent piece coordination.
|Mar-07-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Right on! I'm so glad to have got this right. I noticed that Tal went for 24. Qe6+ first, I had however done enough work on my sub-variations to feel confident this wasn't a critical move. All that being said, I'm checking White's 24th with Stockfish as I write these words and thankfully have confirmation that 24. Rb7 is prefered (+3.23) to 24. Qe6+ (+1.41)|
So that means that I'm on a 5 straight streak, including today Wednesday March 7th's puzzle.
Furthermore, I finished the puzzle week of Feb. 27th to March 4th with 6/7 for a pass!
|Mar-07-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: I just noticed that in my sub-variation 24...Rab8 25. b3 Qa3 26. Rxb8 is better as it leads to a position where White still has a strong attack going. After 24...Rab8 25. b3! Qa3 26. Bc1 Qxc1 27. Rxe7+ Kf8 and White is still winning, but his advantage will be only R+2P vs B+N. |
This being said, even here White has the advantage, so I'm not going to take away from my result, but just keep my eyes peeled for stronger continuations next time.
|Sep-03-15|| ||mikealando: Tal the magnificent|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·