< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Feb-22-02|| ||knight: Black overlooks the winning move 30...Rb5! threatening mate and the queen at the same time. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||cu8sfan: Beautiful! <knight> What do you mean, Black 'overlooks' the winning move? He played it right there! |
|Jul-07-04|| ||erikcu: My algorythm for solving puzzles.
1. Check which side to play and win. (remind self white is traveling up the board, black down)
2. check for material equality. (i.e. is one side up or down on pieces)
3. check if there is some absurd queen-sac., it's a puzzle, puzzles are all about queen-sacs.
4. check if my king is threatened. If it is then the puzzle is probably a mate in X moves, just got to find it.
5. If no mate in x moves start looking for hanging pieces or obvious threats to opponents king.
6. Pins, forks, and sacrifices OH my!
7. Work out a strong move and try and calculate all the reasonable lines from that move.
8. Check the answer
9. Berate my self for not seeing the answer.
10. wait about 24 hours
11. return to step 1.
(I only post this algorythm because I was embarassed I missed this puzzle, its only wednesday)
|Jul-07-04|| ||masterwojtek: Does 30...d2+ also wins? (I know its not as good as Rb5)|
30...d2+ 31.K anywhere than Rxf2 and Nxe3 mate or Qb1 mate
30...d2+ 31.Rxd2 Nxd2 and if Kxd2 than Rxf2+ and wins the white queen
I might be wrong somewhere...
|Jul-07-04|| ||DWINS: masterwojtek, 30...d2+ was my first thought also but I don't think it works.|
After 31.Rxd2 Nxd2 32.Qxf5 Qxf5 33.Nxf5 Nc4 34.Rxh5 Nxa3 White is a pawn up and has all the winning chances in this ending.
|Jul-07-04|| ||masterwojtek: You are right <DWINS> your variation refutes the whole 30...d2+ idea :( |
|Jul-07-04|| ||Papablanca: I didn't even THINK about Rxb5, sigh... Was obsessed with Queen or Rook sacrifices, also thought about d2 of course. I hate it when I miss a puzzle before friday!! |
BTW, cu8sfan, black DID overlook this move: he could have played it one move earlier ALREADY. Let that be a comfort for those of us who missed it: even Spielman missed the wednesday puzzle at his first try!
|Jul-07-04|| ||acirce: Umm.. he could? But the d2-square isn't covered before ..Nxc4. Doesn't seem to work then, no mate after Qxg6. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||loudubb: Missed the answer...i am wondering why white doesnt/cant play Nxb5, taking blks. rook? |
|Jul-07-04|| ||iron maiden: <loudubb> 31. Nxb5 and Black just takes White's hanging queen with Qxe4. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||rookie44: as embarassing as this is to ask, i must first say that i am very new to chess, and even more so new to this site, and either i am misled in the definition of checkmate, or i am not seeing how checkmate is achieved here, i would very much apreciate an explanation as to how this is checkmate |
|Jul-07-04|| ||acirce: It's good that you ask, don't feel embarrassed. It is not checkmate. On higher levels the players usually resign before checkmate, because they realize that it is hopeless to play on anyway. In this case White is first of all down a knight in the final position as you can see. This is most often enough to resign on this level even if there are exceptions. A knight up is almost always totally decisive on higher levels. This is not all in this position though since Black is also threatening both rook to b1 which IS mate (check for yourself), AND capturing White's queen on e4. a lethal double threat, White can only defend against one of them since you only make one move at the time, so he resigned. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||tpstar: <rookie44> Greetings! This is a safe, friendly forum for players of all levels to improve our game, so it's nice to have you aboard! Black won decisive material with the sacrifice 30 ... Rxb5! because if White had accepted the hanging Queen (31. Qxg6?) that would lead to mate (31 ... Rb1++). If White captured the Rook (31. Nxb5), Black would take the hanging Queen (31 ... Qxe4) and would eventually win the game with such a huge advantage in material. 31. Nc6+? was desperation, which didn't alter the key features of the position after 31 ... Qxc6 (32. Qxc6? Rb1++). Other chess puzzles are White/Black to Play and Mate; these are White/Black to Play and Win, so not all examples lead directly to checkmate. Stay kewl, homebro. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||cu8sfan: Hello <rookie44>! Puzzles on this site get harder over the course of the week. they're pretty easy on Mondays and very hard on Sundays. I usually don't get the hard ones and sometimes not even the easy ones. Easy puzzles on Monday = at least something to look forward to on a Monday (-: |
|Jul-07-04|| ||rookie44: wow, thanks guys, i expected at least a few insults before i got a straight answer, never thought i'd see such hospitality. thanks again |
|Jul-07-04|| ||cu8sfan: <rookie44> This is a very civilized site which is also the reason why you'll even find some GMs and IMs here. Chessgames.com and the kibitzers usually do a great job observing these guidelines. That's why this site is so much fun! |
|Jul-07-04|| ||killaa: I've only had a quick look today but I was thinking 30. ...xe3 with the idea of capturing the unprotected white queen. Maybe this only works if white takes the . Does this work? |
|Jul-07-04|| ||cu8sfan: <killaa> 30. ...xe3 31. xe3 e8 or 31. fxe3 f1+ 32. /xf1 xe4 seems to work but White doesn't need to take the on e3. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||acirce: On 30..Nxe3 31.Qxe3 Re8?? there is 32.Nxf5 but Black wins after the intermediate 31..Rfd5, same threat and now also threatening the knight, he wins it and gets a winning position due to the strong passed d-pawn and the possibility to tear up White's king position if he castles, for example. White does have 31.Nxf5 of course but I think it's pretty clear that 31..Nxf5 gives Black much more than enough compensation. White needs to coordinate his rooks and ..h4 becomes an idea again after the castling. All in all, 30..Nxe3 looks like the second best move. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||ruylopez900: Hmm, I was looking at 30...d2+ but I think it gets rid of too many attackers for Black. The solution given was much better, Definitely carrys more of a threat (I also didn't conciously realise that the Knight/Pawn combo kept the King locked in, so you don't want to be trading things off! |
|Jul-07-04|| ||Hoozits: This was a tough one. I have trouble noticing double attacks when the second piece to be attacked is "checkmate." |
|Jul-07-04|| ||dac1990: Missed this one. I thought 30. ...Rxd4 would've won on account of 31. exd4 Re5, but I forgot the Queen could take. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||kevin86: <Hoozits> Just think of it this way: We do not take the king off the board at the end of the game-checkmate is enough. So picture checkmate as the capture of the king-so the double attack would be on the king and queen.|
The only difference would be that in this case,if white has an in-between move that would stave off the checkmate-he could employ it. With check,of course,it must be met directly.
|Jul-07-04|| ||themindset: look at white's play throughout this game! all he wanted to do was exchange exchange exchange. players who play like that seem to be trying to avoid playing chess, and i love seeing them punished so convincingly. |
|Jul-07-04|| ||killaa: thanks <cu8sfan> and <acirce>, I agree that 30. ...xe3 isn't as good as the actual move but should still win it for black. |
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