|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| May-22-07 | | prinsallan: Took me 30 secs, then I foung the text line. Simple lure tactic, refuted a single move, then penetrated by the Rook, leading to mate. |
 |
| May-22-07 | | realbrob: Ok, so 16..Qh4, and White has no way to defend all the threats. 7.Qb3, I think that was a bad move. Maybe playing OTB I wouldn't have had the same courage of Steinitz and allowed White to play 8.Bxf7+, but actually the result of moves 7-10 is that the Black king is a bit exposed, but can be defended by a lot of pieces while White can only attack it with the queen, and that's not enough. On the other hand, the White king's weakness after 10.gxf3 a big problem because Black has the opportunity to organise a huge attack against it. White's queenside pieces were so cramped Steinitz could afford to use 2 moves to move his king to h8! |
|
| May-22-07 | | iceman77: Queen sac to decoy the white rook to clear a way for black rook down the
g-file. Nice little combination. |
|
| May-22-07 | | Paladin88doug: just like you guys said, instantly your eyes see Qh4...the board almost asks you, "Should I move the queen there, or are you gonna do it for me?" lol. I knew that this line led to mate, so I tried to see if after Rxg8+ Rxg8 White had anything. But NOTHING MAN!!! the queen had it all under control. Qf6+ Qxf6. So what else to do but try to throw Steinitz out of a window like Blackburne then? :-) kudos for steinitz |
|
| May-22-07 | | maxfrank: Nice game. 14 ...g4 was interesting from the master of defense. |
|
May-22-07
 | | Honza Cervenka: This line of Scotch gambit is very dubious and after 9.Bxg8 it can be even lost by force for white. But 9.gxf3 seems to be still playable. See Charousek vs Maroczy, 1895 for an example. |
|
May-22-07
| | Honza Cervenka: <maxfrank> This "master of defense" was nicknamed Austrian Morphy at that time. |
|
| May-22-07 | | LIFE Master AJ: A.) I got it.
B.) This is such a pretty game, maybe I will make a web page out of it. (Add it to my collection of miniatures.) |
|
| May-22-07 | | C3r3brum: I wonder why Reiner allows the knight to come to f3 with a black rook staring down the g-file, dangerous things are bound to happen. But I guess he just tried to exchange some pieces, not worrying about his three inactive pieces. |
|
| May-22-07 | | martin moller: A very nice game by Steinitz, i think
Morhpy would have had a very hard time
against Steinitz. Too bad they didnīt
meet over the board :-) |
|
| May-22-07 | | C3r3brum: <PAWNTOEFOUR: now how come they can't be like this the whole week?> hehe good question. My guess is that we wouldnt get much stronger by solving the puzzles. One of the reasons the game ended like this is probably that Steinitz allready saw this forced continuation some moves earlier, and Reiner didnt. This g4 move is a real expert move imho, and those are the ones we need to see. If you can look at the game and find 14. .. g4 yourself, then you can solve a lot of puzzles... I guess. |
|
| May-22-07 | | nimzo knight: <vesi> I guess RxR kills after Kg2 too |
|
| May-22-07 | | nimzo knight: Is f4 instead of fxg4 the loosing move, or something else |
|
| May-22-07 | | pggarner: <...ohhhhh sorry ! i think d3 kills here after Kg2> Wait a minute, after 17.Kg2 d3, White has 18.Be3 and holds it together. Likewise after 17.Kg2 Rxg4+ 18.Kxf3 White is only down the exchange and his king escapes. So what does Black do after 17.Kg2? |
|
| May-22-07 | | MaxxLange: <after 17.Kg2 Rxg4+ 18.Kxf3 White is only down the exchange and his king escapes> White is busted in that position. Black can play simply ...Rag8, with overwhelming threats such as ...Rg2. Furthermore, while White is technically "only" down the exchange, his material is largely inactive on its home squares. So in effect, he's down about 2 rooks. |
|
May-22-07
 | | YouRang: I got it in a handful of seconds, primarily because I spotted the potential for the familiar rook & knight mating pattern. Any move that opens the g-file for my black rook is worthwhile, even if means sacrificing my queen (in fact, *especially* if it means sacrificing my queen). So, 16...Qh4 jumps into view, and white can't withstand the killer threats at h2 and g1. |
|
May-22-07
| | YouRang: <pggarner><after 17.Kg2 Rxg4+ 18.Kxf3 White is only down the exchange and his king escapes. So what does Black do after 17.Kg2?>
I agree with <MaxxLange> that white is busted. In fact, after 17.Kg2 Rxg4+ 18.Kxf3, black has: 18...Qh3+
19. Ke2 (forced) d3+
20. Kd2 Bxf2 (threat: ...Qe3+ & ...Qe1#)
21. c4 (make escape square) Qe3+
22. Kc3 d2+
23. Kb4 dxc1=Q
And white is burnt toast.
|
|
May-22-07
 | | kevin86: I saw this one immediately. The poor,overworked rook is expected to block the g-file in addition to guard duty on the rank. However,any movement from the g-file results in mate,so the rook must look on in horror as the black queen penetrates. |
|
May-22-07
| | kevin86: BTW,I didn't realize that Rob Reiner was that old--Either way,white played this game like a meathead,or the ancestor of a meathead. |
|
May-22-07
| | YouRang: <kevin86> Must be ancestor of meathead. According the cg.com's database, Reiner played just 3 games - all losses to Steinitz: (1) This game, where he lasted 18 moves,
(2) another game where he lasted 19 moves,
But then there's (3) "Reiner's Immortal", (Steinitz vs Reiner, 1860) where he lasted 32 moves! |
|
| May-22-07 | | newton296: saw it immediately, the bank rank mate is defended only by the rook at g4, so just divert it any way possible ! Ie Q h4
SIde note;
I play the scotch gambitt open and white's should have played 5)c3 not o-o with the idea if black plays ...pxp? then bxf7! kxf7 Qh5+ forking the black king and bishop at c5 and regaining the material plus trapping blacks king in the center. White's attack is raging and I have won many games with this trick!! |
|
May-22-07
 | | suenteus po 147: I saw the correct starting move, and I even saw the defense 17.Rg2, but I failed to see the follow through, continuing the offer of the queen to secure the mate :( |
|
| May-22-07 | | LIFE Master AJ: Game # 695, page # 179 (Of the Pickard book on Steiniyz) is:
Steinitz-Rainer; New York, 1885.
1.e4, e5; 2.Nf3, d6; 3.d4, f5; 4.dxe5, fxe4; 5.Ng5, d5; 6.e6, Nh6; 7.Nc3, c6; 8.Ngxe4, dxe4; 9.Qh5+, g6; 10.Qe5, Rg8; 11.Bg5, Qd6; 12.Rd1, Qxe6; 13.Bc4, Nd7; 14.Bxe6, 1-0 |
|
| May-22-07 | | MaxxLange: <YouRang> that looks pretty convincing! |
|
| May-22-07 | | pggarner: YouRang:
<I agree with <MaxxLange> that white is busted. In fact, after 17.Kg2 Rxg4+ 18.Kxf3, black has: 18...Qh3+
19. Ke2 (forced) d3+
20. Kd2 Bxf2 (threat: ...Qe3+ & ...Qe1#)
21. c4 (make escape square) Qe3+
22. Kc3 d2+
23. Kb4 dxc1=Q
And white is burnt toast.>
Thanks, I didn't see the pawn-check after 19.Ke2.
|
|
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 17...Qxh2+
