< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Aug-03-05|| ||erimiro1: <Gypsy> You went too far, I think. We try to solve the puzzles by 2 steps: 1. Based on our experience, and our abilities to "feel" the game, we try to "guess" the solution, without checking the position too deeply (it works more than once, and when it does, the solution comes out within seconds) 2. When the first step doesn't work, we try to use our knowledge and analytical abillities, for a deeper examination of the position.
But this is not enough. You can find the basic idea , like you did, but you also have to keep the moves on the right order. So you have to add also a third step: calculation. Every step of the 3 contains a challenge of itself, and if, like now, something is missing, the puzzle is worthless. |
|Aug-03-05|| ||Gypsy: <erimiro1: ... Every step of the 3 contains a challenge of itself, and if, like now, something is missing ...> An interesting position and, I guess, the one taken by the artificial composition crowd. I am just thinking about its limits, benefits, but also limitating factors in the context of the OTB side of chess. The composition guys certainly know a lot about creativity! But, to keep things in perspective, I like to also keep in mind that they also consider it a great blight if a puzzle starts with a check -- a something of an artificial constraint for OTB. |
<...and if, like now, something is missing, the puzzle is worthless.> Again a valid point of view. But too harsh from my perspective. To me, the principal variation (for instance) of the combo -- 32...Be5+ 33.Qxe5 Qh1+ 34.Kg3 Qg2+ 35.Kh4 Qxf2+ 36.Qg3 g5+ 37.Bxg5 hxg5+ 38.Kxg5 Qxg3 -- is both, instructive and beautiful. A great chess!
|Aug-03-05|| ||zb2cr: For those who wonder about the final position:
White's forced to move 36. ♔h4. Then 36. ... ♕e1+; 37. ♕g3, g5+; 38. ♗xg5, hxg5; 39. ♔xg5, ♕xg3.
If instead 38. ♔h5, ♕xg3; 39. ♔xh6, ♕xh3+; 40. ♔xg5, ♕e3+ and now if White tries to protect his Bishop with 41. ♔f6, then 41. ... ♕f4#.
|Aug-03-05|| ||YouRang: I didn't "get" this puzzle, if getting it means finding 32...Be5.|
But I found 32... g5, which seals off the white king's escape squares (f4 and h4), thus making the upcoming queen attack seem nearly irresistable.
|Aug-03-05|| ||patzer2: Today's puzzle solution 32...Be5! is a good illustration of the deflection (via removing the guard) tactic. |
Note the importance of the key followup deflection 35...Qg1!, which permits 36. Qh4 Qe1+! 37. Qf2 g5+ 38. Bxg5 hxg5+ 39. Kxg5 Qxf2 (removing the guarding King and picking off the Queen).
A similar Black deflection tactic follows if White plays 33. Qxe5.
|Aug-03-05|| ||ckr: I would have played
32...Qh1+ 33.Kg3 g5 (blocking the kings flight squares, threatening mate by 34.Qg2#. After which crafty starts throwing pieces away
34.Bxf7+ Kxf7 35.Bxg5 hxg5
Seems more direct to me than looking for a mate 10 moves out.
|Aug-03-05|| ||ckr: <YouRang> I also considered 32...g5, but took the check first as white has but one response.|
|Aug-03-05|| ||kevin86: The sequel is ugly for the first player:36 ♔h4 ♕e1+ 37 ♕g3 g5+ 38 ♗xg5 hxg5+ 39 ♔xg5 ♕xg3 and mate follows soon-but not soon enough for Zuchy|
|Aug-03-05|| ||Rank Amateur: I found
33 f4 Qc2+
I think white's sunk this way too.
|Aug-03-05|| ||YouRang: <ckr> Yes - I would agree that 32...Qh1+ is preferable to 32...g5. And your earlier point is well taken -- it seems to be the most simple (if not the fastest) way to decide the game.|
|Aug-03-05|| ||Happypuppet: What about 32... Qh1+ 33. Kg3 g5 34. f3 Be5+ 35. Kf2 ?|
I'm sure it's winning for black, but the solutions Bd4 and Be5+ seem to be more clear.
|Aug-03-05|| ||snowie1: White's Q wants to be on f4, looking at f7+ with mate to follow. The move I
like on 32...Be4! The white Q has but
few options; d3's as good as any, Now-a the Music folks;33..Qh1+! 34 Kg3..Qg1+! and white resigns, because the K has but one move, h4 and Bf2+..
if white was a lower rated player, he
might interpose with Qg3, but Bf2 is
decisive! No problem with h4-d8 to worry about...it's the end!
|Aug-03-05|| ||chessic eric: I gotta say I missed this one, and played Qh1+.
In case anyone was wondering, the losing line 33.Qxe5 continues as follows:
36.Qg3,g5+ winning the white queen (much like in the text).
|Aug-03-05|| ||Dudley: To continue the debate about the relative values of different solutions to the problem: It happens that this puzzle has more than one way to win, because Black has the positional advantage. However, there are situations that come up in real games that require a specific move to continue an attack or force home an advantage,and sometimes they are not too easy to find. The value of straining your brain (not Fritz's) to find the best possible solution is that someday you will need to find it just to stay in a game. Of course, if we could all find those moves consistently we would be grandmasters, but you can train your tactical vision and play more accurately.|
|Aug-03-05|| ||YouRang: <Happypuppet> Hmmm. Okay, I missed the move: 34. f3.|
I'd add it to this list of moves I've missed, but it's already full.
|Aug-03-05|| ||Boomie: Two top players finding ideas in the fledgling Queen's Gambit is fascinating to play over. Zukertort uses the open lines to develop rapidly while Steinitz is controlling d5. 18...♘e7 is a move worth studying. The ideas of over protection and central control without occupation are embodied in this move. I suspect that somehow 18...♘e7 (immaculately?) conceived Nimzowitsch who was born in late 1886.|
18. ♗a2? is a waste of time. The bishop is well placed on b1 where it guards f5 and controls e4.
19...♕a6 is a slack move. ♕h5 is better as it prevents ♗h6, threatens k-side mayhem, supports h6, and keeps an eye on the thematic d5.
(19... ♕h5 20. ♘e2 ♖xc1 21. ♖xc1 ♗c6 22. d5 ♘e4 23. ♕a5= (0.00))
21. g4 looks insane at first glance and, upon closer inspection, remains loony.
21. g4? = (-0.13)
(21. ♗b1 ♗c6 22. ♗xf5 gxf5 23. ♘e5 (0.86))
Zukertort finds a lemon, takes a bite out of it
(28. ♗xb7 ♗xb2 29. ♕c8 ♔g7 (0.67))
and shares it with Stienitz, who takes a big bite
(28...♗xb2 29. ♕c5 b6 30. ♕d6 ♗e5 31. ♕d8 ♔g7 (-2.48))
and hands it back to Zukertort to finish.
29. ♗c4? (3.80)
(29. ♕d2 ♕xd2 30. ♗xd2 ♗xb2 31. ♗xb7 ♗xa3 32. ♗xh6 (-0.56))
I wonder if any other World Championship game has three blunders in a row.
|Aug-03-05|| ||erikcu: <Dudley: The point of these puzzles is finding the quickest most forcing win, not just to find any move that wins. If the continuation you come up with is not forcing (...Bd4) and doesn't seem unusual enough to qualify for a special study then you didn't get it. Finding some pedestrian continuation to grind out a win is not solving the puzzle.>|
While I agree with this for myself, I believe people have different needs and reasons for doing these puzzles. Sometimes in an actual game you will miss the ideal move, and have to grind out a "pedestrian continuation" to win. I am sure it will not harm anyone for doing so, here... I definately get more from people showing alternate lines (albeit weaker sometimes) than the continual SPAM of "IT WAS EASY"... great... "it was easy." :(
|Aug-04-05|| ||YouRang: <HappyPuppet> After reviewing the game last night, I'm going to flip-flop again! I think 32...Qh1+ still wins. After
33. Kg3 g5
34. f3 Be5+
35. Kf2 ?
Black wins with 35...Bd4! deflecting the queen away from the defense of f3 -- after which 35...Qxf3+ Kh2 37. Qg2#.
|Aug-05-05|| ||YouRang: <HappyPuppet> Let me remove the typos from what I typed above...
33. Kg3 g5
34. f3 Be4! (this deflects the queen)
35. Qxe4 Qxf3+
36. Kh2 Qg2#
|Aug-16-05|| ||ckr: <YouRang> After 34.Bxg5 hxg5 35.Qxg5 white can't force a mate. Nothing wrong with getting a bishop for 2 pawns when the 2 pawns are immediately regained, but Stenitz' line does mate, allthough after much play.|
36. ... Qe1+ 37. Qg3 Qxe7+ 38. g5 Qe4+ 39. Qg4 Qe1+ 40. Qg3 hxg5+ 41. Kxg5 Qxg3+ 42. Kf6 Qf4+ 43. Ke7 Qe5+ 44. Kd8 Qd6+ 45. Kc8 Bd7+ 46. Kxb7 Qb6+ 47. Ka8 Bc6#
No gold star for us :-(
but with 32.Qh1+ we would have still won
|Feb-26-08|| ||Knight13: So something's wrong with <29. Bc4>|
|Aug-20-08|| ||just a kid: <knight13>Yes it gives up the h1-a8 diaonal.which proved fatal.|
|Aug-23-08|| ||Once: Silicon is a great leveller. I'm guessing from the kibitzing that the position at move 32 was a "black to play and win" puzzle.|
Fritz 11 on infinite analysis finds two winning moves. 32. ... Be5+ is (apparently) mate in 14 and 32. ... Bd4 is mate in 15.
Interestingly, after 32. ... Be5+ 33. f4 Fritz says that 33. ... Bxf4 (the game continuation) is mate in 13. But 33. ... Bd4 is mate in 12. This position is fun:
32. ... Be5+ 33. f4 Bd4
click for larger view
The white queen has nowhere to run to that doesn't allow mate on the move - 34. Qg3 Qh1# or 34. Qd3 Qg1#
|May-23-11|| ||Llawdogg: Wow! 32 ... Be5+! was great.
But after 33 f4, rather than take the pawn with check (Bxf4+), Bd4! would have been better.
|Mar-24-12|| ||Anderssen99: Steinitz can force mate without even bothering about winning the queen (After: 36.Kh4,g5+), i.e.: 36.Kh4,Qe1+!. 37.Qg3,Qxe7+. 38.g5,Qe4+. 39.Qg4,Qe1+. 40.Qg3,hxg5+. 41.Kg4,Qe4+. 42.Kxg5,Qf5+. 43.Kh6 (Or Kh4),Qh5 mate. It is nice to see the queen jumping on the squares (e7), (e4) and (e1) before the administering the KO.|
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