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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| Jun-24-07 |
| jmrulez2004: i think we need Deep Junior on this one:D...my analysis of course..is definately not perfect and lacking |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| realbrob: Well, that was insane! I didn't get it, but I suspect that also after 28.Rf3 White has a good game. Not a winning one, though. |
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Jun-24-07
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| ahmadov: I even did not try to find it, because it is useless to spend time on an insane puzzle. However, it is really useful to see the moves... |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| Xeeniner: Would 29. Qe3 be possible instead of 29. Qxc3? |
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Jun-24-07
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| Gilmoy: White is 2 pawns down, but has a passed a-pawn, and intersections at b5, d6, f6, g5, and h6. Black has intersections at b5, f6, h6 -- note how they're all defensive. Black outnumbers White 3-2 at b5/f6. White can't deflect away two defenders of f6, which tends to rule out the Bxh6/Nf6+ candidate. White apparently will sac one piece (and surely calculated it before going down 2 pawns). There's no instant mate or material grab, so apparently White's surviving piece will penetrate further itself, or support Q+R sorties. Of White's B and N, which one will have more life post-sac? An N is more agile in cavorting around a shattered pawn structure. Note that White owns f7, so an Ng5 suddenly has great next-outpost squares at e6/f7, plus supports h7. First try: [A] 28.Bg5 tripling on f6 -- now it's Black who can't hang any piece on f6. [A1] hxg5 29.d6 Qe8[] (to avoid White's Nf7+) 30.Ng5+ Kh6 31.Rf7 Qg8[] (B<any>? 32.Rh7#) 32.Ne6+ Kh7 33.Rxg7+ Qxg7 (Kh8 34.Qh6+) 34.Nxg7 and White queens first. [A2] 30..Kh8 (Kg8 31.Qd5+ Kh8) 31.Qc3! N(f6,f8) (the only way to block h) 32.Qh3+ Nh7 (Kg8 33.Rxf6 Bxf6 34.Qh7+ Kf8 35.d7 and Black's Q is lost: Qd8 36.Ne6+, or White queens with check / 33.Rxf8 Kxf8[] 34.d7 same fork) 33.d7 Qg8[] 34.Nxh7 and White either queens with check, or discovers with mate. 31.Qe3/e1/f2 could be equivalent, but Qc3 might tempt Black into wasting a move with b4 or d4, both of which lose instantly to 32.Qh3+. If all moves are equally good for you, prefer the one that gives your opponent the most rope. It looks like taking the B loses for Black. But Black's congestion severely cramps his Q: [B] 28..Qe8 29.Nd6 Qg8 30.Rf7 hxg5 (N<any> 31.Bxh6) 31.Rxd7 (threatens Q(xg5)-(h4+) Rd8 32.Rxd8 Qxd8 33.Nxb5 and Black's awful pawns and bad B are no match for White's unstoppable a-pawn: a6-a7-Qa2-Nc7. |
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Jun-24-07
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| Gilmoy: I "missed" 28..c3 -- IMHO, it just makes White's game easier, since I had his Q going c3 anyways (so Black just wasted a tempo), he's already written off the B, and it's one less pawn to worry about later. 30..Qd8 sidesteps the d7 fork lines, and prevents an early Nxg5, but exposes e6/f7, resulting in a similar buildup and mate threat at h7. 41.g3 was a clever constriction to snuff all counterplay. All 3 of Black's pieces are left with no good moves. |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| PAWNTOEFOUR: to all you guys that actually considered bg5,for whatever reason,you saw more than i did |
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Jun-24-07
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| Peligroso Patzer: <ahmadov: I even did not try to find it, because it is useless to spend time on an insane puzzle. However, it is really useful to see the moves...> My reaction exactly. |
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Jun-24-07
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| al wazir: <MostlyAverageJoe: Any idea what was white trying to do with 41.g3, instead of the obvious 41.Qe8?> It prevents 41...Nf4, which forks  and  . But since white played Qe8 anyway, why not do it on move 41? |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| beginner64: I think black should have resigned at move 37. I see a simpler ending from move 39. 39. Qe6+ Kh8.
40. Nf7+ Kh7
41. d7.
Anything I missed here?
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| Jun-24-07 |
| newton296: be7 huh! considered it but Will agree with englishman that u gotta see way too far down the rd for a person , even a gm , to find this move (otb) .
pastor probably instincted the first few moves but unlikely saw all the moves from 28 too 43!! THat would be an astonishing 30 move deep combo!! Unlikely for even a great like kasparov to see that far ahead. But I guess it doesn't matter how u find the winning line as long as you do! props to pastor. |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| newton296: Bg5 sorry. |
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Jun-24-07
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| Jack Kerouac: <An Englishman> Don't usually contribute to Sunday puzzels, but agree this was a brain-buster....
Will confer with Neal and Mr. Burroughs on this board displacement.... |
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Jun-24-07
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| patzer2: For today's insanely difficult Sunday puzzle solution, White pulls the surprise clearance sacrifice 28. Bg5!! out of the
hat.
Increasing the difficulty of the solution is the fact that the sacrifice of the Bishop is intended to clear the h3 square and the h-file for White's Queen check, when White's Queen does not have immediate access to this square and it will take several preparatory moves to carry out this plan. |
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Jun-24-07
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| fm avari viraf: The beautiful Monsoon has just began giving a great sigh of relief from the scorching heat of Summer but the intermittent Power failure mars the lovely atmosphere. My first thought was 28.Bg5 attacking the Black Queen but 28...c3 I didn't anticipate. White's position is overwhelming & the rest seems to be all tactics. |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| Kool Knight: Really Nice Game. Bg5 was my guess, but I couldn't find the line |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| soberknight: How on earth is a mere mortal supposed to see Bg5? It just seems to lead nowhere...arg! |
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Jun-24-07
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| playground player: I saw Bg5 right away... and then I went blind! |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| vesivialvy93: I do not understand why blacks plays 28...c3 , and if this move was not the best what was the idea behind ? thanks ! |
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Jun-24-07
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| RandomVisitor: Black's error in this game was 26...Qe7. Better would be 26...Qg8, when white has some compensation for the pawns, but is it enough? |
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Jun-24-07
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| MostlyAverageJoe: <Gilmoy> and <al wazir> Thanks for the comments regarding 41.g3 -- indeed, white might have been trying to constraint the black's position even more. Nevertheless, it was a bad move. Hiarcs finds that the following continuation is a forced mate in 9: 41. Qe8! Nf6 42. Qxg6!
and now the position is 
click for larger viewthreatening Ne6 in the next move (black cannot do anything about it), after which the Qg7 mate can be only delayed, not prevented. Other responses to 41. Qe8 lose faster. On the other hand, 41.g3 evaluates at mere +8.52 (20-ply) -- yeah, it is winning, but not a quick forced mate that is evident above. |
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| Jun-24-07 |
| Dionyseus: Rybka 2.3.2a finds Bg5 in a little over 1 minute:
28.Bg5 Qe8 29.Nd6 Qh8 30.Rf7 hxg5 31.Nxc8 Qd8 32.Nd6 Nf6 33.Nxb5 Ne4 34.Qc2 Qxd5
± (1.01) Depth: 18 00:01:19 19125kN
Rybka WinFinder 2.2, a special tactical version of Rybka, finds Bg5 in 4 seconds: 28.Bg5 hxg5 29.Nxg5+ Kg8 30.d6 Qe8 31.Qd5+ Kh8 32.Nf7+ Kg8 33.Ng5+ Kh8 34.Nf7+ Kg8
² (0.26) Depth: 12 00:00:04 1010kN
For those who considered 28...Qe8 instead of c3, they appear to be right, Qe8 seems to be much stronger than c3. Here's what Rybka WinFinder thinks of 28...c3:
28...c3 29.Qxc3 hxg5 30.d6 Qd8 31.Qh3+ Kg8 32.Qe6+ Kh7 33.Rf7 Qxa5 34.Qh3+ Kg8 35.Nxg5
 (4.28) Depth: 21 00:10:51 107mN
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Jun-25-07
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| MostlyAverageJoe: <Dionyseus: Rybka WinFinder 2.2, a special tactical version of Rybka, finds Bg5 in 4 seconds: 28.Bg5 hxg5 29.Nxg5+ Kg8 30.d6 Qe8 31.Qd5+ Kh8 32.Nf7+ Kg8 33.Ng5+ Kh8 34.Nf7+ Kg8> This looks to me like a "Draw Finder", not a "Win Finder". The line above is one move away from a draw by repetition, despite expecting black to commit a bad blunder 29...Kg8 -- 29 ... Kh6 is much better (Kg8 evaluates at +5.09, Kh6 at +0.53, 18-plies). |
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Jun-25-07
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| Gilmoy: 41.g3 is a (tired) human's move, especially if they both just emerged from a scramble. Benefit: Takes only a few seconds to evaluate, can't (hardly) go wrong, and is strictly harmful to your opponent. Black probably has to spend much more effort to find a 41st that doesn't lose instantly, for a net profit to White in peace-of-mind. Possible backfire: Black's free move just might hold a draw. Ultimately, you're right: 41.Qe8 <is> stronger, because Black hasn't doubly covered d8 yet, so he can no longer stop promotion. 41..Nf6 doesn't help -- simply 42.Qxf8+ and 43.d8=Q. The "weakness" of 41.g3 is probably that it gave Black time for Bf6 to doubly cover d8. |
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Jun-25-07
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| kevin86: Funny how fast black's position crumbled after the seemingly weak sacrifice at g5. It hit his position like a hurricane. |
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Later Kibitzing > |
sac: 29.Qxc3