< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jan-29-10|| ||agb2002: White has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair and a pawn. White cannot play 23.Ne6 because of the pawn on f7. Therefore, 23.Be6:|
A) 23... fxe6 24.Nxe6 Bh6 (24... Rg8 25.Rxc8 + -) 25.Nxf8 Rxf8 (25... Bxf8 26.Rxc8 + -) 26.Rc7 Qxc7 27.Qxc7 + - [Q vs 2B].
B) 23... Rxc7 24.Rxc7 + - [R vs B+P] (24... fxe6 25.Qxg7#).
C) 23... Rb8 24.Bxf7, threatening Ne6 and Bxg6 or Rc7.
The direct 23.Bxf7 seems to give Black some chances after 23... Rfd8 (threatens 24... Qxc7 25.Qxc7 Rxd1+ 26.Rxd1 Rxc7 27.Rd8+ Bf8 28.Rxf8+ Kg7) 24.Ne6 Rxd1+ 25.Rxd1 Qd2 26.Re1 Rc1.
I don't have now the time this position surely deserves.
|Jan-29-10|| ||Patriot: I never considered Be6. It is a threatening move so it does fit within the realm of "checks, captures, and threats".|
My idea was to snap off the bishop pair with Nxb5 and play Bxf7. I'm not sure if that is equal or which side is better.
Be6 is a very keen move. Congrats to anyone who got this!
|Jan-29-10|| ||psmith: I didn't find the key move.
But here's a bit of analysis, with assist from Fritz 5.32 (which found all the good moves), that I found attractive. After <JimfromProvidence>'s "headscratcher" 24…Ba4!? 25. b3 Bc6:
26. Ne6 Qe5 27. Bxg6 Rg8 28. Rd4! Be8 29. Bd3 Bh5 30. Rh4 h6 31. Rxh5! Qxh5 32. Nf4 Qg5 33. Ng6+ Kh7 34. f4! Qh5 35. Ne5+ f5 36. Qh4!! Qxh4 37. Bxf5+ Kh8 38. Nf7#
|Jan-29-10|| ||johnlspouge: Friday (Difficult)
Gelfand vs Svidler, 1996 (23.?)
White to play and win.
Material: N for B+P. The Black Kh8 has 1 legal move, g8, x-rayed by Bb3. White has the natural recapture with 23.Bxf7, but most of the tactical tension is on the Q-side. Black attacks Nc7 with Qa4 and Rc8, while White protects Nc7 with Qe7 and Rc1. Other than the apparently harmless double burdens of Bg7 (Rf8 and Pf6), the only notable positional feature is the lack of flight squares for the loose Black Qa5. The White Kg1 is vulnerable to back-rank mate.
Candidates (23.): Bxf7, a4, Rd5
I went for the simple 23.Bxf7. Toga rates 23.Bxf7 at about +0.9 P, but 23.Be6 at about +2.0 P.
|Jan-29-10|| ||Uncle Mark: i was looking for Ne6 and Bxf7, but found nothing. The intermediate Be6 was beyond my knowledge....
This is why those are famous GM and me only a poor NC !!!!!|
|Jan-29-10|| ||sethoflagos: And then there is 24 ... Rbc8
23 Be6 Rb8
24 Bxf7 Rbc8
25 Bb3 Bh6
26 Ne6 Rxc1
27 Rxc1 Qd2
28 Rd1 Qe2
click for larger view
29 Qd8! Qf1+
30 Rxf1 Rxd8
31 Nxd8 Bxf1
32 Kxf1 ...
Even though this line seems to leave white a minor piece up, I'm still not convinced that black is without resource.
|Jan-29-10|| ||RandomVisitor: After 20...Rad8 21.Qe7 Bg4 22.f3 Be6:
click for larger view
[-0.33] d=25 23.Qc7 Qxc7 24.Rxc7 f5 25.Rxb7 Kh8 26.Rb6 Rb8 27.Rxa6 Rfd8 28.g3 Bxb2 29.Kg2 Be5 30.Ra5 Bd6 31.f4 Kg7 32.h3 Rb7 33.Kf3 Bb8 34.Rd2
[-0.32] d=24 23.Qxb7 Kh8 24.Qc7 Qxc7 25.Rxc7 Rd6 26.Nb4 Rxd1+ 27.Bxd1 a5 28.Nc6 Bxa2 29.Nxa5 Bh6 30.Kf2 Bf4 31.Rc2 Rb8 32.g3 Bb1 33.Re2 Bd6 34.Rd2 Bc5+ 35.Kg2
|Jan-29-10|| ||RandomVisitor: <sethoflagos>In that line, what about 25.Bxg6! Bc6 26.Ne6, or even 25.Be6 or 25.b4.|
|Jan-29-10|| ||Shah Mat: <OBIT> after 24..f5|
1. (4.60): 25.Nc7-e6 Bb5-e2 26.Ne6xf8 Rb8xf8 27.Rd1-d5 Qa5-b6 28.Qe7xe2 Rf8xf7 29.Rd5-d7 Qb6-f6 30.Rd7xf7 Qf6xf7 31.Rc1-c7 Qf7-g8 32.Rc7xb7 Qg8-c8 33.Qe2xa6 Bg7xb2 34.Rb7xh7+
and black is lost.
|Jan-29-10|| ||kevin86: I was trying to solve this one with a chainsaw or a hatchet;instead,I should have used a scalpel.|
|Jan-29-10|| ||SharkBait: Did anyone consider NxB. Black takes the knight back with queen or pawn and that allows white rooks better attacking options. I could get some advantages for white but no mate.|
|Jan-29-10|| ||sethoflagos: <RandomVisitor: <sethoflagos>In that line, what about 25.Bxg6! Bc6 26.Ne6, or even 25.Be6 or 25.b4>|
Yes, I think white may win with 25.Bxg6! though a little more slowly with 25 ... hxg6 perhaps.
I looked briefly at both Be6 and b4 and I thought they were a bit slow on tempo so didn't look too deeply
|Jan-29-10|| ||euripides: <Shark> I think 23.Nxb5 Qxb5 24.Rxc8 Rxc8 25.Rd8+ wins for White, but 23...bxb5 leaves the queen covering d8. Black also has 23...Rxc1.|
|Jan-29-10|| ||patzer2: If White immediately plays 23. Bxf7 , instead of 23. Be6!! , my move-by-move look with Fritz 10 indicates White can maintain an advantage but doesn't have a clear forced win:|
23. Bxf7 Be2! (23... f5 24. b4 Qa3 25. Be6 Rcd8 26. Bb3 Rxd1+ 27. Rxd1 Qb2 28. Nxb5 axb5 29. Qxb7 ) 24. Rd7 Bb5! 25. b4! Qa3! 26. Rdd1 Ba4 27. Bxg6! Rg8 (27... hxg6 ?? 28. Ne6 ) 28. Bc2 Bxc2 29. Rxc2 Qf3! 30. Qd2 (+0.72 @ 20 depth & 2-cpu).
|Jan-29-10|| ||Ian McGarrett: <sethoflagos> In your analysis, why do you have the white bishop retreat to b3 after Rbc8? Doesn't it make more sense to go back to e6, forcing the rook off the c-file again?|
|Jan-29-10|| ||chrisowen: Watch out Peter the wolf is at the door. Gelf flings the rope around his neck it seems.. Be6 Rb8 Bxf7 strings him along fiddling back the pawn and scores in a composition type of middle game. 20..Kh8 ducks the question only orchestrating bad conduct or handling which still gestures the knight in.. Nc7 Bb5 Qe7. The white hunters would win down material since after Rb8 Bxf7 Boris has a grip and black is in the dark, crystal clear is the sound plan of Ne6 and Bxg6. Nice chorus of approval in drawing the point from him.|
|Jan-29-10|| ||Once: <AccDrag: Spiderman's hands are not sticky. Many small gripping hairs pop out from his fingertips when he decides to crawl up a structure.>|
I have been truly out-geeked.
Mind you, en route, I did have an amusing mental image of Spidey having trouble with the paperwork involved in a toilet visit...
|Jan-29-10|| ||Brandon plays: Wow, this is very difficult. After looking through some sidelines of Ne6 (fxe6 with nothing) and even Be6, I'm thinking that these don't seem to work. Bxf7 seems fairly logical for this type of position to equalize material.|
For some reason Be6 is appealing to me, but I am not seeing a strong continuation for white. After all, Black could even just move Rb1.
Black seems to block any type of continuation that white has come up with. In this position, I would play Bxf7.
|Jan-29-10|| ||wals: Boris Gelfand - Peter Svidler, Groningen 03 1996
Analysis by Rybka 3 1-cpu: 3071mbhash: depth 19: time 8min:
1. (2.40): 23.Be6 Be2 24.Bxc8 Bxd1 25.Rxd1 Qxa2 26.Bxb7 Qxb2 27.Bxa6 f5 28.Ne8 Qe5 29.Re1 Qxe7 30.Rxe7 Bc3 31.Bb5 h5 32.g3 Bb4 33.Rb7 Kh7 34.Kg2 Kh6 35.Bc4
2. (0.69): 23.Bxf7 Be2 24.Rd7 Bb5 25.b4 Qa3 26.Rdd1 f5 27.Be6
|Jan-29-10|| ||VincentL: I briefly looked at this for a few minutes last night at the end of a long day.|
The move that came to mind was 23. Bxf7. I could see there were many long lines to work through, and I didn't have the energy to look at them.
I then checked and saw the game move 23. Be6.
If I had been fresher and had more time would I have considered this? I doubt it.
This puzzle seemed ro be on a completely different level of difficulty to the previous four this week.
|Jan-29-10|| ||KnightFortress: <WhenHarryMetSally> I see yet another person has misquoted "Romeo and Juliet". The word "wherefore" actually means "why", not "where", so it doesn't really make much sense in the context that you used it in.|
|Jan-29-10|| ||cyclon: I dare to propose; 23.Be6 Rb8 ( -fxe6 24.Nxe6 Bh6 25.Nxf8 and because of the threat of mate in h7, either -Rxf8 26.Rc7, or 25. -Bxf8 26.Qxf6+ both wins immediately), now that rook is off the c-file, White can play 24.Bxf7 and if f.e. either rook to c8, then 25.Be6 back with the idea Bd7 and Ne6. To me it seems like better game for White after 23.Be6. Maybe Black can improve here though.|
|Jan-29-10|| ||WhiteRook48: whoa I thought of 23 Be6 but I had no idea about the deflection|
|Jan-29-10|| ||OhioChessFan: <psmith But here's a bit of analysis, with assist from Fritz 5.32 (which found all the good moves), that I found attractive. After <JimfromProvidence>'s "headscratcher" 24…Ba4!? 25. b3 Bc6: 26. Ne6 Qe5 27. Bxg6 Rg8 28. Rd4! Be8 29. Bd3 Bh5 30. Rh4 h6 31. Rxh5! Qxh5 32. Nf4 Qg5 33. Ng6+ Kh7 34. f4! Qh5 35. Ne5+ f5 36. Qh4!! Qxh4 37. Bxf5+ Kh8 38. Nf7#|
Improvements welcome! >
Hard to analyze this position. There's so many moves the engines are hard pressed to get too far. Relying mostly on my eyes, I think Black can hold on a little longer with the typical trapping maneuver 27...f5 (or maybe even 29...f5)
29. Bxh7 is much stronger. 30...Rbe8 is better in the sense of being a slower way to lose (threatens Rxe6, though it won't save the game) which is why Fritz is going for 30. Qd7, though I'm not convinced that's right, and suspect it might not rate as well at higher plies.
|Feb-01-10|| ||sethoflagos: <Ian McGarrett: <sethoflagos> In your analysis, why do you have the white bishop retreat to b3 after Rbc8? Doesn't it make more sense to go back to e6, forcing the rook off the c-file again?>|
23 Be6 was a vital move to gain a tempo (rather than just keep a black rook off c8), but white's most credible threats require Ne6 to attack g7, followed in some variations by Ng5 attacking h7. Be6 just gets in the way. b3 is a good spot as it both attacks g8 and guards Rd1.
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