< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-19-07|| ||Eurotrash: Saw it in two minutes. First thing was seeing that there ia a dicovered attack on the queen after Nf6+, which would work if it the queen wasnt on d8, covering f6. So the idea of Bd7 popped up, and not so hard to figure out that it works.|
|Sep-19-07|| ||jahhaj: Considered Bd7 quite early but gave up on it before because I missed the move Qxc8. Eventually got back to it though because I couldn't see anything else.|
<MAJ> You mentioned candidate moves. Do you analyse quite formally? I.e. make a list of candidate moves and go though each in turn, with more candidate moves at greater depth if necessary. Or do you go all over the place trying this and that until it all hopefully comes together (like me).
Anyone else's thoughts appreciated too.
|Sep-19-07|| ||spacecube: My line was 23. Qc3 if 23..Nxa4 loses to 24. Nf6+ Kg7 25. Nh5+ Kh6 26. Qg7+ Kxh5. 27. Qxh7+ Kg4 28. Qh3 mate.|
23... Ne4 is less clear
|Sep-19-07|| ||xrt999: White has won the exchange and has a rook and pawn to blacks dark square bishop. Things are looking bad for black, of course, but I dont really see how white is going to continue. Its not over for black. I would play this.|
|Sep-19-07|| ||mkrk17: Bd7 wins the exchange for white. Nice puzzle.|
|Sep-19-07|| ||zb2cr: Didn't see it. Blast.
<xrt999>, Black is also in a bad way. His Bishop is paralyzed. Black can try to trap the Knight with 27. ... Re8, but White can extricate it. With Pawns on both sides of the board, and the White e-Pawn being a passed Pawn candidate, this is just about a guaranteed win.
|Sep-19-07|| ||TheaN: 3/3
A harder Wednesday if you ask me, and MAJ's analyses seem to confirm that.
It was nearly going to approach this puzzle as some regulars do, by making a candidates list (strangely enough the first move jumps out for me almost always), but I didn't have to in the end.
A few ideas that slipped my mind before the solution were 23.Qc3?, 23.Nb6?, but these fail to respectively 23....Nxa4! and (just) 23....Qxb6.
So, I thought, lets block all and everything with 23.Bd7?! At first glance I thought that 23....Nxd7 defended everything (something else doesn't really work as it loses the exchange without a fight) but 24.Qxc8! is the puzzle's key move, and the rest is simple.
|Sep-19-07|| ||Fezzik: My first choice candidate move was 23.b4, but the light-squared Bishop was too much of a target (23.b4 b5!). It was only upon realising I had to move the Bishop to attack the rook on c8 that I saw 23.Bd7!|
This was a nice game. If I remember correctly, Istvan is the father of the Polgar sisters and I may have seen this puzzle before in the big book of Polgar combinations.
|Sep-19-07|| ||twin phoenix: It seems to me that blacks critical mistake was 22.--,B-b8?? leaving his king position full of holes and no pieces around to defend. not too surprising that it was a black square weakness that came back to haunt him in the end... also of interest is that if the silly bishop had moved to g7 (it's natural square) then whites combination wouldn't work since the Bishop would cover f6 and thus 23. B-d7, Qxd7 now works for black.|
of course i'm a patzer and missed the combination so maybe i ain't the best person to point out flaws in master play! 8)
|Sep-19-07|| ||vlado23: final rc1 is a neat move - its tempting to move the knight out but leaving it where it is prevents the bishop going to a7 wherefrom it threatens e3.|
|Sep-19-07|| ||kevin86: The black queen was overworked-being tied to the defense of her QR and the h4-d8 diagonal-specifically f6 and e7. In addition she is subject to a veiled attack from the white rook. Bd7 is just the move to topple the apple cart. The bishop must be captured,but the knight cap loses the rook at c8 via the sac and fork at e7. The queen capture allows the fork at f6. Black must lose at least rook for bishop.|
|Sep-19-07|| ||ColonelCrockett: I considered the many knight checks and moves before hitting on the right answer. My reasoning was that the attack on the bishop would be secondary to a strong knight check. Then I hit on the square d7 as being important and found the combination all in about thirty seconds. This puzzle was fairly simple for me . . . it seems to have varying degrees of difficulty for other players . . . I wonder what that means?|
|Sep-19-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <spacecube: My line was 23. Qc3 if 23..Nxa4 loses to 24. Nf6+ Kg7 25. Nh5+ Kh6 26. Qg7+ Kxh5. 27. Qxh7+ Kg4 28. Qh3 mate.>|
Except that black would not play 24...Kg7, but rather 24...Kh8 and white has nothing much.
<23... Ne4 is less clear> Black loses to the same idea as in the game: 24. Qxc8 Qxc8 25.Ne7+ royal fork.
<jahhaj: <MAJ> You mentioned candidate moves. Do you analyse quite formally?>
Just a basic checklist:
- any checks?
- any captures?
- any moves enabling a check (forks, skewers)?
- any moves attacking a Q or a smaller piece?
but I don't have the discipline that <dzechiel> has ...
<vlado23: final rc1 is a neat move> Nd6 works just fine as well. It seems to me that black's Q pawns are more important to him than the e3 pawn is to white.
|Sep-19-07|| ||gawain: Like several others I considered Bd7 and rejected it as leading nowhere. Wow. That was a good one.|
|Sep-19-07|| ||patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, White plays the decoy sham sacrifice 23. Bd7! to force
a simultaneous Knight Fork and Discovered Attack after 23...Nxd7 24. Qxc8 Qxc8 25.
In the final followup, after either 25...Kg7 26. Nxc8 Rxc8 27. Rxd7 or the game continuation, White is up the exchange with an easy win.
|Sep-19-07|| ||fm avari viraf: After having a cursory glance at the position, I could sense the fork trick winning the Rook on c8. Hence, 23.Bd7! [ not 23.b4 then Nxa4 ] Nxd7 24.Qxc8 Qxc8 25.Ne7+ wins back the Queen & the game.|
|Sep-19-07|| ||willyfly: Sad to say I missed it. I saw 23 d7 xd7 while trying to find a way to get the Black to d7 for the fork f6+ but missed 24 xc8 which leads to the fork e7+. I read the newly opened c-file as an attack on the White instead of an attack on the Black . I do that a lot|
|Sep-19-07|| ||xKinGKooLx: I didn't get this one. I thought the answer was 23. Qc3 after 10 minutes of thought. I'm a bit dissapointed, because it's "only" a Wednesday puzzle, and I really should have got it, but I'll just learn from my mistakes. And I can always make up for it by getting tomorrow's puzzle right!|
|Sep-19-07|| ||Crowaholic: <MostlyAverageJoe: Except that black would not play 24...Kg7, but rather 24...Kh8 and white has nothing much.>|
Yes, 24. ..Kh8 25. Rxd8 Nxc3 26. Rxf8+ Rxf8 27. bxc3 Rd8 with an even exchange since the beginning of the line. White is still a pawn up but I doubt that this is enough to win here.
|Sep-19-07|| ||spacecube: MostlyAverageJoe: Except that black would not play 24...Kg7, but rather 24...Kh8 and white has nothing much.|
Sorry I forgot to mention that after 24...Kh8 its 25. Ne8+ Kg8 26. Qg7++
So what should black play after 23. Qc3! At the least I can see is either mate on g7 or g4 or rook win in the line posted by Mostly Average Joe, or Queen for Knight if 24. Nf6+ is allowed because mate will follow. 23.... f5 maybe?
|Sep-19-07|| ||pawnofdoom: I saw Ne7+ and Nf6+ and realized that they coudln't win anything as the black queen can simply take the knight. I found nothing else, and not Bd7|
|Sep-19-07|| ||Crowaholic: <spacecube: Sorry I forgot to mention that after 24...Kh8 its 25. Ne8+ Kg8 26. Qg7++>|
Actually, it's more like 25. Ne8+ Nxc3 26. Rxd8 Rxd8 27. bxc3 Rfxe8 ...
|Sep-19-07|| ||spacecube: Ah yes! I missed that - Thanks!|
|Sep-19-07|| ||YouRang: Almost forgot to look at today's puzzle (so tied up with WCC tournament scheduling problems).|
I missed it anyway. :-(
Nice puzzle though.
|Sep-19-07|| ||outplayer: Not that difficult a puzzle. I have found the answer!!|
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