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Georgy Lisitsin vs Mikhail Tal
2nd Soviet Team Cup (1954), Riga URS, rd 7, Sep-??
King's Indian Defense: Fianchetto Variation. Classical Fianchetto (E67)  ·  1-0


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Kibitzer's Corner
Jun-21-03  Shadout Mapes: This is probably 1/2-1/2, if not 1-0.
Jun-21-03  Ezely Nakhdov: Yes, if black doesn't move his bishop, it falls and he loses soon. If he does , 74.Rc8+ will either mate or win the bishop depending on where it's gone. Got to be 1-0.
Jun-21-03  Jonber: The game score is incorrect; Lisitsin won the game. Incidentally, I believe his name is spelt Lisitsin, like on the scorecard, and not like in the headline.
Jun-21-03  Shadout Mapes: Ah, I see, 73...Bd6 74.Rc8+ Bf8 75.Ra8! zugzwang.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka:, the result should be definitely 1-0.
Premium Chessgames Member OK, we fixed the game result.

About Lisitsyn vs Lisitsin, both spellings are common. Is Lisitsin more common in English speaking nations?

Jun-23-03  Jonber: I’m from a non-English speaking country myself so I wouldn’t know anything about different spellings, but I checked the player encyclopaedia and it list the name as Lisitsin. Perhaps there’s a way you can make both spellings searchable? A “Sorry, we have no Lisitsyn listed in our database. Please see Lisitsin.” sort of a thing, if you know what I mean.
Jun-23-03  Larsker: There's no y-sound in Russian phonetics so Lisitsin definitely looks better. (The Russian letter y is pronounced "ou"). I found one Russian page with his name written with i and none with y:


Anyone interested in Russian could try this: Click on this link (a translation site):

Choose "English to Russian" in the drop-down box. Enter this link in the box where it asks for a web page and - voilà - in Russian.

I wanted it to translate Lisitsin into Russian. It didn't (maybe because it's written Lisitsyn here?) - but names like Alekhine, Tal, Kasparov, etc were translated alright.

Jun-23-03  Larsker: But then again: Stravinsky, Rybenko, Spassky, etc. In many European languages it's Stravinskij and Spasskij which is closer to the Russian pronunciation. The young lady's name is [Ri-ben-koh]. Someone once decided that every other time a Russian i should be transliterated into an English y. I have no idea why.
Premium Chessgames Member <Sorry, we have no Lisitsyn listed in our database. Please see Lisitsin.> That would be great. Unfortunately I can think of no easy way to implement such a feature, without exhaustively typing in thousands of alternate spellings. Maybe if a set of rules could be created, to convert "ij" to "y" and so forth.

Anyhow, about Georgy, here's an example of Lisitsyn in print, just so you don't think we're crazy. The Exeter Chess Club has abook by "LISITSYN" that can be borrowed by members. I must assume that the cover of this Batsford book spells it that way.

In any case, it's clear that the "i" spelling is somewhat more common, especially in America, so I we'll go with that.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: It is an usual problem with transcription of names from slavic languages, which use Cyrillic alphabet instead of Latin alphabet. These names are sometimes trascripted fonetically (for example Lisitsyn, Chigorin, Korchnoi, Kholmov), sometimes the used version is in fact a transcription from another language (for example Nimzowitsch, Bogoljubow), sometimes the transcription is a written version of name copied from Cyrillic alphabet to Latin alphabet but without diacritical marks, which don't exist in English (for example Ljubojevic - fonetically Lyuboyevich, Cvetkovic - fonetically Cvetkovich or even Tsvetkovich etc.) and sometimes it is a strange mixture of all mentioned above (for example Alekhine <By the way, I don't understand that last "e". If "Alekhine", then why not "Lisitsyne", "Chigorine" or "Epishine"?> which is fonetically Alyekhin; Epishin - fonetically Yepishin etc.) Big problem with fonetic transcription is that one name is very often spelled in many ways: Andrei - Andrey - Andrej; Alexei - Alexey - Alexy - Aleksei - Aleksej - Alexej etc. Lisitsyn and Lisitsin are two fonetic versions of name "LISICYN" ("c" is pronounced as "ts"). Maybe "Lisitsyn" is better as "y" is used also in Russian.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: By the way Spassky in Russian is Spasskij.:-)
Jun-23-03  Jonber: <so you don't think we're crazy> Off course I think you’re crazy. A good chunk of insanity is an absolute requirement to make such an excellent website. ;-)
Jun-24-03  Larsker: <so you don't think we're crazy> Yea, you're crazy alright :-) (I saw this article in a Dutch newspaper where Jan Timman argued that Fischer, Salov, Kasparov and were all nuts :-)

Sorry - my mistake - he didn't think Fischer was all that bad.

No - don't throw me out! Don't !!

Jun-24-03  Larsker: In the meantime, I've obtained a rare copy of the interview mentioned above and on the page for Robert James Fischer

Thinman (after having done with Fischer, Salov and Kasparov): And Have you seen how they spell the names of Russian, Chinese and Tibetan players?

Interviewer: (nodding, prodding him on).

Thinman: Did you see how they spelled Xu Jun? I mean, no Chinese would ever spell it that way. It's unthinkable. They must be crazy.

Interviewer: (hesitantly) But isn't there something about the Chinese having like different letters and all?

Thinman: (not listening) And did you see the piece they published about Torre running naked up and down the aisle of a New York bus, flapping like a bird? I mean: I do that every day on the bus ride from Utrecht to Hertogenbosch. Nothing wrong with that.

Interviewer: (nodding) Sure.

Thinman: (losing interest) Can I throw some garbage after Karpov now? Can I?

Interviewer: (eagerly nodding) Go ahead.

Thinman: As to Karpov - did you see the clothes he was wearing on his last trip to USA. That shirt and that tie? Together? Totally bunkers. That guy must be insane.

(A this point, we take some time off for a commercial break and to clear our minds after all that new information)

[Disclaimer: This post is all irony. Any resemblance with reality is accidental.]

Mar-11-06  Autoreparaturwerkbau: <Honza> Transcription is indeed a problem in chess. Being from a Slav country i also experience some problems when i search for some Russian or Yugoslav chess GMs and can't find them in search machines, i have to rethink first how an american/english would write down players like Vitaly Tseshkovsky, Alexei Chernuschevich or Alexey Khruschiov. For me it's like speaking some other language when i read those "englishized" surnames.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: The Slavic names question and the validity of different versions has been debated many times now, with no clear resolution. In this case, I have the impression that Lisitsin the player is usually spelled like that - but his eponymous gambit (1.Nf3 f5 2.e4) is often spelled Lisitsyn.

Transcription of English (and American, Canadian, Scottish, Irish, etc) names into cyrillic can be just as strange.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: I'm fairly sure that Qi Jingxuan and Chi Ching Hsuan are actually the same player.
Nov-21-10  Old King Cole: But seriously, this was a good Rook versus Bishop endgame under improbable circumstances.
Jun-07-11  Knight13: Somehow that white rook on a7 (move 53) felt condescending and passionate at the same time for the rest of the game.
Oct-11-12  Abdel Irada: The power of zugzwang: If, e.g., 63. ...♗xh6; 64. ♖c7†, ♗g7; 65. ♔g5!, ♔g8; 66. ♔g6, ♗f8; 67. ♖c8 1-0. Black can vary slightly on moves 64, 65 and 66, but none of his alternatives appears to make a difference in the result.
Oct-05-17  Whitehat1963: Fantastic game!!
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