< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-02-05|| ||awfulhangover: I got it right, but struggled some minutes. Thought it was something else than this easy combo. It's after all Friday. And Tal.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||keypusher: Never came within a mile of getting it. Another amazing game Tal didn't bother to include in his autobiography.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||bishopmate: could someone tell me what goes wrong after 17. na4 gxf5?|
|Sep-02-05|| ||Happypuppet: <bishopmate> The best I can find is 18. Nxc5 Qxc5 19. Bc3 and white piles up on the knight. Doesn't look that convincing though.|
Forgive me for not seeing, but I clicked in with 29... Rxe5 30. fxe5 Ng5 in mind. Wins the exchange, doesn't it? Which is just as much as 30... Qb7. I didn't see anyway for White to keep the material. If Rb3, Qxb3 PxQ Nxh3. If Qf1, Rd1.
|Sep-02-05|| ||Happypuppet: Oh... right, probably should have combined the two defensive moves I suggested replies to. Rf1 saves. <_<|
|Sep-02-05|| ||Jack Kerouac: Morbid thought. If Paul Morphy could see what's happening to his city, he'd turn in his grave.
He probably already has.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||Gazman5: <Happypuppet> i did exactly the same thing...Saw Rxe5 fxe5 then Ng5...i only realised the Rf1 defence after i saw Qb7 on the board, then looked to see where Ng5 failed|
|Sep-02-05|| ||MiCrooks: Jahhaj - What computer program are you using that would miss 31. Rb3 Nf2++? That potential double check and mate which makes the rook stay put is what is so powerful about the Qb7 move.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||patzer2: I ran today's puzzle (29...?) on Fritz 8 to 18 depth, and the program assessed 29...Rd1! as a slightly stronger winning move than Tal's 29...Rxe5!:|
E Walther - M Tal
3rr3/5pkp/p5p1/4R3/4nP2/5RPQ/P1P4P/1q4BK b - - 0 1
Analysis by Fritz 8 (@ 18 depth):
1. (-3.09): 29...Rd1 30.Qg2 Rc8 31.Rd3 Rc1 32.Rb3 Qxa2 33.Rxe4 R8xc2 34.Rc3 Rxg2 35.Rxc1 a5
2. (-2.31): 29...Rxe5 30.fxe5 Qb7 31.Qg2 Rd2 32.Rb3 Nxg3+ 33.Rxg3 Rxg2 34.Rxg2 Qb2 35.Rd2 Qc3 36.Re2
3. (-0.66): 29...Qb7 30.Rxe8 Nf2+ 31.Bxf2 Qxf3+ 32.Qg2 Qxg2+ 33.Kxg2 Rxe8 34.Bd4+ Kf8 35.Kf3 Ke7 36.c4 Kd6
4. (-0.50): 29...Qxc2 30.Rxe8 Rxe8 31.Qg2 Qxg2+ 32.Kxg2 Rd8 33.Rb3 Rd2+ 34.Kf3 f5 35.a3 Ra2 36.Ke3 Nd2 37.Rb4
5. (-0.47): 29...Ng5 30.Rf1! (This is an instructive defensive move, as all other tries after 29...Ng5 clearly lose for White. For example, 29...Ng5 30. Rxg5?? Re1 31. Qg2 Rdd1 is an easy Black win.) 30...Qxc2 31.Qg2 Rd2 32.Rf2 Rxf2 33.Qxf2 Qxf2 34.Bxf2 Rxe5 35.Bd4 Nf3 36.Bxe5+
6. (-0.38): 29...Qxa2 30.Rxe8 Rxe8 31.Qd7 Qe6 32.Bd4+ Kf8 33.Qxe6 Rxe6 34.Ra3 f5 35.Kg2 Ke7 36.h3 h6 37.c3
|Sep-02-05|| ||jahhaj: <MiCrooks: What computer program are you using that would miss 31. Rb3 Nf2++?> We're talking about different lines here. I was responding to <kolio> who was trying a different line to the game continuation.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||Frankly: Re Patzer 2 [BTW: how does one reply so that the post indicates in sharp brackets whom you are replying to?]|
At least the Rd1 school is in good company! The defences are so fine that it would win 9/10 games anyway, methinks.
|Sep-02-05|| ||YouRang: I missed it. I was looking at Rd1 and for knight forks, double attacks and all sorts of sacrifices. |
But Qb7 was off my radar -- a failure on my part to 'think outside the box'. Funny, I can at least say that I predicted the first move should be Rxe5; only because it threatened Black's well-placed knight.
|Sep-02-05|| ||YouRang: <Frankly> <BTW: how does one reply so that the post indicates in sharp brackets whom you are replying to?]>|
That's easy -- just type in the sharp brackets! (I finally got something right today.)
|Sep-02-05|| ||patzer2: The possibility 29...Rd1! 30. Qg2 Rc8! 31. Rxe4 Rxc2 32. Rf2 Rcc1 sets a winning pin.|
Of course in the game continuation, Tal also threatens a winning pin with 31...Ng5 (e.g. 31. Qg4 Nd2 ). In the face of this threat, play might have continued 31. Qg2 Rd2 32. Rb3 Nxg3+ 33. Rxg3 Rxg2 .
|Sep-02-05|| ||kevin86: Tal wins another!! It seems that about once a week,Tal shows up here. Why not Fischer,Kasparov,or Spassky? I know they show up from time to time,but never as regularly as Mr.T|
BTW,to honor the beleagered city of New Orleans-how about a week of Morphy?
|Sep-02-05|| ||Geronimo: Do I get one tenth of one point for figuring that Qb7 was the winning move even though I didn't get to it in the right way? I guess I saw out of the box, but the box out of which I was seeing was just filled with a bunch of goofy sacs and losing lines :( |
Sigh. Good instincts, bad moves!
|Sep-02-05|| ||al wazir: My solution was 29...Rxe5 30. fxe5 Rd1 31. Qg2 (forced) Rd2 32. Qh3 Nf2+ 33. Rxf2 Rxf2, winning the exchange. If 34. Qh4, threatening perpetual check, then black can play 34...Rd2, followed by Rd1. White's queen has to return to g2 and the black queen picks off white's a and c pawns. That's a win; the easiest continuation is to give back the exchange in order to trade queens.|
In the game as played white can play 31. Qg4. Then 31...Nf2+ is answered by 32. Bxf2 Rd1+ 33. Kg2. If 31...Nd2 then 32. Kg2, followed by Qf4. Black wins the exchange, but that's not grounds for resigning (does anybody remember yesterday's puzzle?).
I like my solution better.
|Sep-02-05|| ||snowie1: 29 g4! A must, to keep the R-Q connected. Now, if...Qb7: 30 Qg2...Nd2 and 31 Rd3...now it's even. But again, a case of the king being in a small box with no excape route.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||jahhaj: <al wazir> Your solution has some flaws. 32.Qh3 is by no means forced, 32.Qf1 or 32.Rf1 are better moves.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||gomickeylol: <Everyone> just testing!|
|Sep-02-05|| ||gomickeylol: <Kevin86> It was Tal's style I guess??|
|Sep-02-05|| ||BishopofBlunder: Once again, I get only half credit (like in math class, I could always get the solution but failed to show my work). I saw 29. ..Rxe5, but missed the continuation. I thought it was 30.fxe5 Ng5, to fork queen and rook. I didn't see 31.Rf1, but how about 31. ..Rd1? This is how I see it after 31.Rf1 Rd1 32.Qg2 (forced, I think):|
32. ..Rxf1 33.Qxf1? Qxf1 and black wins.
32. ..Rxf1 If white does not re-capture with the queen, then black is a rook up. I couldn't find any move for white that would be helpful.
Then again, white could leave the queen at h3 and play 32.Rxd1 Qxd1 33.Qg2 Nf3 and the white queen is stuck guarding against Qxg1#, though material is even and white has an extra pawn on the c-file.
I don't have software or even a board to work these out on, I am trying to do them in my head, so they may be full of flaws. Also, I am not trying to say any of these is better than the text. Tal's solution is better by far. I am just trying to figure out if 30 ..Ng5 leads to any advantage.
|Sep-02-05|| ||patzer2: <Frankly> I see <YouRang> answered your immediate question. For more tips click on the help button at the upper left. Then click on "how do I put colors, links and chess symbols in my messages?" Next click on Kibitzing Tricks.|
|Sep-02-05|| ||al wazir: <jahhaj: Your solution has some flaws. 32.Qh3 is by no means forced, 32.Qf1 or 32.Rf1 are better moves.> You're right. After 32. Qf1 black has to exchange queens or play Qxa2 to defend f7. After 32. Rf1 he has to play Qxc2 to defend the knight. I like black's chances, but Tal's line is clearly better.|
If I had read earlier postings carefully I would have seen that <patzer2> has as usual done the definitive analysis. He too prefers Rd1 to the line Tal played, but on move 29, not 30!
|Feb-14-15|| ||DanielHoseano: Good game by Tal|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·