< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Mar-05-06|| ||IMFSTJP: "I asked him a couple of times what move he thought was better than 13.Nc4 in that position."|
The answer to this question is completely irrelevant to the game and the previous posts. If you had replied with something like "You're right! Tal made a mistake somewhere and could have gotten himself into a bad or even losing position", followed by "Which move was better than Nc4?", I might have answered to your satisfaction.
The point is that Tal was playing around with his opponent, as it is often done in simoultaneous games, by GMs and IMs. As such, I repeat, the game deserves no space among Tal's evergreen game collection. Only the final combination does, starting with 14.Bg5! and it can remain forever as brilliant checkmate study material.
|Mar-06-06|| ||IMFSTJP: "I want to be a chess romantic, yet this is not always possible" (Tal about himself)|
|Mar-06-06|| ||RookFile: So, for what it's worth, Fritz says this combination doesn't work. It moderately prefers 13. Nf3 over Nc4. Either way, black should win. And no, offramp, 13. Qxg5+ is not a perpetual, black replies with 13.... Kf7, meeting 14. Qf4+ with Ke8.|
|Apr-11-06|| ||beatgiant: <RookFile>
<for what it's worth, Fritz says this combination doesn't work>
I tried to save this combination with <13. Ne4> (since the knight has better opportunities from e4 than from c4).
But after 13. Ne4 Ndxe5 14. Bxg5+ Kd7 15. dxe5 Nxe5 16. Nf6+ Kc7 17. Qc2+ Kb8, I wasn't able to find sufficient compensation for White's material.
Nor was 13. Ne4 Ndxe5 14. Bxg5+ Kd7 15. Nf6+ Kc7 16. Bf4 Qd6! 17. Ne8+ Kb8 18. Nxd6 Nxg6 19. Nf7+ good enough (after 19...Nxf4 20. Nxh8 Nxg2+ Black has a big material advantage).
So I have to agree with <Fritz> at this point.
|Mar-04-09|| ||atahualpa yupanqui: according to chessmaster 11th 13:Nc4 (my cpu is suck so perhaps chessmaster 11th miss something can anyone analys the position after 13:NC4 with a better chess software such rybka or crafty...fritz?|
that's the analysis of chessmaster 11th
39:31 time) (23 depth) (position 599954829)
13...Ndxe5 14.Bxg5+ Kd7 15.Nxe5+
Nxe5 16.dxe5 Bb4+ 17.Kd1 Qg8 18.Qxg8
Rxg8 19.h4 b6 20.f4 Ba6 21.g4 Bc5
22.Rc1 Bd4 23.b3 Bd3 24.Rh3 Be4
|Mar-06-09|| ||alphavillee: |
click for larger view
Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-bit:
13...Ndxe5 14.Nxe5 Nxe5 15.dxe5 Kd7 16.Bxg5 Bb4+ 17.Ke2 Qg8 18.Qxg8 Rxg8 19.f4 b6 20.Rhd1
(-1.40) Depth: 23
|Mar-06-09|| ||atahualpa yupanqui: thank you a lot alphavillee you was kind to analysis that for me|
so it was true in fact Tal blunder in the 13th move with Nc4....
|Mar-06-09|| ||Antonius Blok: Pure Tal!
He's just PLAYING chess, to not say he's just PLAYING.
|Oct-25-09|| ||WhiteRook48: white doesn't even have to play here... black is creating his own weaknesses|
|Feb-03-11|| ||meppi: unsound schmunsound it worked didn't it?
Why debate over the move 9. Ng5 or 13. Nc4? It's a gamble with a good return for investment. Both moves do not allow a quick checkmate or strong attack by black towards white. With correct defensive play white will go down a piece but that isn't such a bad thing to risk, when the goal of the game is to checkmate.
|Dec-06-15|| ||andrewjsacks: Do not like this pun.|
|Dec-06-15|| ||HeMateMe: I don't think it's a pun. 'Word play'?|
|Dec-06-15|| ||morfishine: <HeMateMe> On your comment: <I don't think it's a pun. 'Word play'?> In fact, its nothing at all, not even elementary rhyme; What it is, or what it signifies, is a perverse obsession with the three letters 'Tal' combined with an incessant proclivity to create something witty with those letters, and in this case, failing once again|
|Dec-06-15|| ||Richard Taylor: This is probably a lightening game. Tal's 9. Ng5? is wrong as is his 13. Nc4?. But he is lost at that point. Black takes on e5 whatever White does. But Black cooperates with 13.... Bh6?? and loses immediately. Speculation - cheapo - by Tal. |
Black could defend easily but it is sometimes easier to attack than defend and Tal took a cheeky risk and it paid off.
|Dec-06-15|| ||cunctatorg: It's not a "cheapo" by Tal; if there was a game Tal-Korchnoi, 9. Ng5 would be a horrible error, if it is Tal-Salnikov, 9. Ng5 comes as a nasty experiment...|
|Dec-06-15|| ||HeMateMe: this game looks like a Kasparov v. the Jupiter florida junior high school team.|
"Optional Extra: Garry makes 15 minutes speech and takes Q&A for 15 minutes There are two fees – one without speech and one with speech."
That's part of an advertisement for a Kasparov simul, somewhere--how hard up for a dollar can you be?
|Dec-06-15|| ||catlover: <Richard Taylor: But Black cooperates with 13.... Bh6?? and loses immediately.>|
Exactly. Maybe Black should have given back some material, something like: 13... Ndxe5 14. Bxg5+ Kd7 15. Nxe5+ Nxe5 16. dxe5 Bb4+.
|Dec-06-15|| ||mruknowwho: Very impressive. I thought Tal was going to exchange two minor pieces for a rook and pawn. Nope. 16. Qxg6+!|
|Dec-06-15|| ||TheTamale: I love Tal. Black plays 13)... Bh6, but you know Tal's gonna take the pawn anyway.|
|Dec-06-15|| ||Ferro: Señor Profesor|
|Dec-06-15|| ||Richard Taylor: <catlover> well, as for Tal, he was world Champion about the time I started Chess, and played some great games. But the return match showed Botvinnik also playing some very strong attacking and counterattacking games. |
This game is not typical of Tal. He normally plays from full development and rarely played gambits. He like the Ruy Lopez and so on. He liked to be ready if he was to attack. Here he either overlooked or ignored Black's counter-sac on the e5 pawn which is a typical idea even if Black isn't under attack. I nearly lost an online standard time "correspondence" game when someone as Black sacrificed on my e5 pawn and gained a strong pawn centre for the piece.
Let's call a spade a spade and pass over this trivial game in silence.
Komodo confirms that Tal was basically in a bad way after the non-book Ng5?
|Dec-06-15|| ||garuffa: I've read all the posts. So IMJP was right, after all. But 13.Nc4 was not a blunder. The blunder was made before.|
|Dec-07-15|| ||Ferro: Señor Comodoro...|
|Dec-07-15|| ||kevin86: Tal gives up two pieces and mates with queen and knight.|
|Dec-07-15|| ||Ferro: Entonces quitar señor Profesor|
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