|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Sep-11-11
 | | OhioChessFan: <The EGT finds the strongest defence, starting 38...exf5 39.Kf2 Kg7 40.Kf3 Kf7 41.Kf4 Ke6 42.g3 d5 > After 41...Ke6 
click for larger view
Why is everyeone calling for 42. g3 here instead of 42. h4? |
|
Sep-11-11
| | OhioChessFan: I played through <D2009> line and don't see any improvements for White after the original 42. g3. As one example of why I prefer 42. h4 (It's a Pawn race, after all, let's push those things 2 squares unless <that> is the move we need to put Black in zugzwang), suppose Black plays 42...d5 43. cxd5+ Kxd5 44. Kxf5 and surely White is going to win a Pawn race with g4 still in his pocket. I don't have time at the moment, but I will have a look later on today.
click for larger view |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | Bluegrey: yes h4 is the best continuation |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | whiteshark: <38. f5!> What else? |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | David2009: Timman vs J Vogel, 1974 postscript:
<OhioChessFan: After 41...Ke6
click for larger view
Why is everyeone calling for 42.g3 here instead of 42.h4?> Because we didn't think of it!. You are absolutely right. Here's a Crafty EGT link to your position as above:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
The EGT quickly gives up (retreats rather than advances). Have fun playing out the win! |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | Memethecat: any fool can see its <38f5>... I on the other hand went for <38Kf2> with the idea of eventually creeping over to the h file. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | erniecohen: way too easy for a Sunday. There is really only one candidate. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | morfishine: <OhioChessFan> Good to see your post. I knew with an endgame-type position, you'd be all over it. :) |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | Sbetsho: Is it bad if I got the correct first move instantly? Although I didn't calculate things at all, I could see that by this move white can invade black's position easily. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | Ghuzultyy: It's been a long time since I last commented on a puzzle so here it is! 38.?
My first candidate is f5 here. Let's see if I can see the followup. <38.f5!?>
A)<38.f5 e5? 39.Kf2 Kg7 40.Ke3 d5!?>
Black can't activate the king so he has to try something else. <41.cxd5 Kf7 42.d6 Ke8 43.Ke4 Kd7 44.Kd5> White wins easily.
B)<38.f5 exf5? 39.Kf2 Kg7 40.Ke3 Kf7 41.Kf4 Ke6 42.h4 h5 43.g3 d5 44.cxd5+ Kxd5 45.Kxf5> White wins easily in this variation too.
C)<38.f5 Kg7 39.Kf2 Kf7 40.Kf3 Ke7 41.Ke4> Also winning.
I hope I didn't miss something. Time to check. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | Patriot: 38.f5 became a candidate very quickly, creating an instant threat. If 38...e5 the white king can simply march into d5 and zugzwang black because of so many pawn moves. If 38...exf5 the king marches up to f4, threatening to take on f5 and win by zugzwang. I'm not going into detail on this since it has already been covered. I eventually ended up in the same position <David2009> demonstrated and that is NOT an easy win! I really thought this was the easiest Sunday puzzle but trying to play it out against Crafty turned out to be difficult. But I would have to say, 38.f5 is the only move to consider here. I didn't anticipate 38...Kg7 but it doesn't change the situation. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | waustad: Over the board I'd have moved my king up, but knowing that it was some sort of puzzle I knew it was a suprise, so I actually got it. Smysslov often had a pawn sac that allowed the king to enter somewhere, so that gave me the idea. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | BOSTER: 38.f5 without any hesitations. Why?
Because this is the only move which corresponds to the word <Puzzle>.
Because I trust <CG> and I don't want to be involved in the same thought process what they did before.
Because white has more space and push "f5" can destroy black pawn structure,and if they play exf5 they would create the hole on d5.
And because white king can reach the centre before black king can do this, and maybe most important- white has more moves by pawns (more free space!) than black,. It means black will be in zugzwang. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | JG27Pyth: Well in order to be an insane puzzle it needed to A)the f5 pawn sac or B)Some of that impenetrable voodoo business involving corresponding squares... and since no one actually understands corresponding squares I figured it had to be choice A. |
|
Sep-11-11
 | | chrisowen: am mitigating lovely 385f whites in creamy stew black can wriggle but Jan us know will feast in. On evasive maneovres call I black at his mercy it remains tent encircled light flash and get one ida in f5 the gate ke4 the doorway kf7 ending fxe6+ time. Im afraid re Vogel suffered again curt despatch under qe6 hung drawn him out to dry. It is not all plain sailing qxe3+ see if you clean up then gutted in booking a slot it seems like white had it all sown up after f5 down we go Jaap wa walk the planking not quite total fubar. |
|
Sep-11-11
 | | scormus: As soon as I saw this position I knew I had no chance. The only move I could imagine was 38 f5, how stupid can I get? So when I looked and saw f5 with the little A, I knew it was a blunder. I nearly fell of my chair when I move on and saw ! But I'd have had as much chance of winning it as of painting the Mon..... Oh sorry, <Once> already made that call ;) |
|
Sep-11-11
| | OhioChessFan: I think everyone already sees how helpless Black is if his King stays back on the last 2 ranks. So I won't address that, but will show what I think is a much easier line than the 42. g3 line. 38...exf5 39.Kf2 Kg7 40.Kf3 Kf7 41.Kf4 Ke6 42. h4 43. cxd5+ Kxd5 44. Kxf5
click for larger viewI see nothing better for Black than to take the d Pawn. 44...Kd3 45. g4 Kxd2
click for larger viewThis is a fairly easy win. White Queens one move before Black, and then plays Qg5+. After the exchange of Queens, the White King walks over and captures the b6 Pawn. This is far easier than the tablebase win in the 42. g3 line. Why does it work? As I said before, it's a Pawn race. Push those babies as fast as you can. Secondly, the g Pawn is unopposed. In principle, unopposed Pawns should be pushed, not nudged. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | dadoktor: f5 is very easy to see i dont think it should be sunday really |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | psmith: <dadoktor> look at <Dr.J>'s post at the top of the page |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | agb2002: The material is even.
White can create weaknesses in Black's pawn structure with 38.f5:A) 38... exf5 39.Kf2 Kg7 40.Kf3 Kf7 41.Kf4
A.1) 41... Kg6 42.d3 h5 43.g3 Kg7 44.Kxf5 Kf7 45.h4
A.1.a) 45... Kg7 46.Ke6 Kg6 47.Kxd6 Kf5 48.Kc6 Kg4 49.Kxb6 Kxg6 50.Kxc5 A.1.a.i) 50... Kxh4 51.b6 Kg4 52.b7 h4 53.b8=Q wins.
A.1.a.ii) 50... f5 51.b6 f4 52.b7 f3 53.b8=Q+ Kg2 54.Qf4 f2 55.d4 f1=Q 56.Qxf1+ Kxf1 57.d5 wins. A.1.b) 45... Ke7 46.Kg6 Ke6 47.Kxh5 Kf7 48.Kg4 with an easy win. A.2) 41... Ke6 42.g3 d5 43.d3 d4 44.h3
A.2.a) 44... h5 45.h4 Ke7 46.Kxf5 Kf7 47.Ke4 (47.g4 hxg4 48.Kxg4 Kg6 49.Kf4 Kh5 50.Kf5 Kxh4 51.Kxf6 Kg3 looks bad for White) 47... Ke6 48.Kf4 A.2.a.i) 48... Kf7 49.Kf5 followed by Ke6 or Kg6 winning. A.2.a.ii) 48... Ke7 49.g4 hxg4 50.Kxg4 Kf7 51.Kf5 Kg7 52.h5 Kh6 53.Kxf6 Kxh5 54.Ke6 Kg4 55.Kd6 Kf4 56.Kc6 Ke3 57.Kxb6 Kxd3 58.Kxc5 Kc3 59.b6 d3 60.b7 d2 61.b8=Q d1=Q 62.Qg3+ and White might win the Q+P vs Q ending. A.2.b) 44... Ke7 45.Kxf5 Kf7 46.g4 followed by Ke6 or Kg6 winning. B) 38... e5 39.Kf2 Kg2 40.Kf3 Kf7 41.Ke4 Ke7 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.g4 followed by Kc6 or Ke6 winning. C) 38... Kg7 39.fxe6 Kf8 40.Kf2 Ke7 41.Kf3 Kxe6 42.Kf4 looks similar to previous lines. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | sevenseaman: I was about to turn the page on the POTD as to me all pawns looked like ants on a day's mission. Well, for the first time in my entire chessy life have I sat in front of a blackboard and watch some one, chalk in hand, explain why and how f5 was the most eminent move to win the game for White. Its a funny game, it has secrets where there seem to be none. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | Patriot: <OhioChessFan> I assume you mean 42...d5 in your line <38...exf5 39.Kf2 Kg7 40.Kf3 Kf7 41.Kf4 Ke6 42. h4 43. cxd5+ Kxd5 44. Kxf5>. The move 42.h4--I like it! It almost seems counter-intuitive (giving away a pawn move) but sets up a trivial win against Crafty. It played 42...d5 43.cxd5+ Kxd5 44.Kxf5 h5 45.g4 hxg4 46.Kxg4 Ke5 47.h5 Ke6 48.h6 Kf7 49.Kf5 c4 50.h7 Kg7 51.h8=Q+ Kxh8 52.Kxf6 Kg8 53.Ke6 etc., winning easily. |
|
| Sep-11-11 | | stst: yeah, it's insane exercise for patience.
W's concern is the break-thru by Bk on the c/d P, hence the K must go out in time, whilst it got chances on the K-side P, esp. g/h.
One of the many lines:
38.g4 d5
39.d3 e5
40.Kf2 e4
41.Ke3 d4
42.Kxe4 Kg7
43.h4 Kf7
44.g5 hxg5
45.hxg5 fxg5
46.fxg5 Kg6
47.Kd5 Kxg5
48.Kc6 Kf4
49.Kxb6 Ke3
50.Kxc5 Kxd3
51.b6 Ke3
52.b7 d3
and obviously W runs quicker to queen and wins.
Insane to exploit other lines, and totally not surprising to miss the toughest defense by Bk. It's an OTC game, when it'd much easier to figure out the best next-move depending on opponent's move. |
|
| Sep-12-11 | | Thumbtack2007: Stockfish 2.1.1 immediately selected 38. f5 Kg7 39. Kf2 exf5 40. Ke3 Kf7, etc. The king side pawns disappear, and finally White gets a Q,P against Q end game, not the easiest one to carry out (as noted by <stst>, it takes a LOT of patience). |
|
| Sep-12-11 | | njchess: I actually thought this was the easiest of Sunday puzzles in quite a while. It is essential to break up Black's central pawns as well to exploit his poor light square control. Consequently, 38. f5 was my only candidate move. Black's backward pawns and White being up a tempi give White a clear edge. There is no way for Black to stop White from promoting. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
