< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Oct-15-07|| ||skiskichess5: My Fritz 8 on infinite analysis also found the solution instantly. I'm surprised by some reports here that some chess engines rated this with a -ve black advantage evaluation.|
Surely this -ve is impossible, as white has only one move to avoid mate. So as someone above said it is forced.
|Oct-15-07|| ||Kwesi: What's wrong with 11.Ncd6?|
|Oct-15-07|| ||TheaN: What's all the discussion about 47.h8=B? WTH? That's just weird.|
|Oct-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <skiskichess5: My Fritz 8 on infinite analysis also found the solution instantly>|
The issue is not finding the solution IN THE PUZZLE POSITION; any reasonable engine will find it immediately.
The issue is in evaluating the position after a VARIANT line, such as:
44. ... Ra1+ 45. Kf2 Rh1 46.Rc8 Rxh7
See this URL for the diagram: Znosko-Borovsky vs Salwe, 1907. The position is an unquestionable draw, but many engines think that black has an advantage there.
Perhaps I should've put that diagram in my original reports about engines getting delusional. Sorry for creating confusion...
<TheaN: What's all the discussion about 47.h8=B? WTH? That's just weird.>
Just to prove beyond any doubt that the promotion h8=Q was really required to solve the puzzle :-)
|Oct-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: Okay, for something more reasonable: Is there any way black could've won if he played 36...gxh5 instead of 36...g5? Or is it still a draw?|
The above was prompted by <znprdx>'s question below. If someone could expand on Capablanca's work referenced below, it would be also quite educational, I think.
<znprdx: What an enjoyable game up to 27. White to move: down a pawn yet contolling the 7th rank and the e-file. Didnít Capablanca show us how how only one of these conditions along with the move would guarantee a win? Hope someone posts a key point where Z-B might have let it all slip away Ė perhaps even earlier. Qxc8[R] almost made me fall off my chair as did the amazing 36.h5>
|Oct-15-07|| ||fm avari viraf: Being a Chess Coach, I keep teaching such tactics & techniques so I withdraw from the elite band of solvers.|
|Oct-15-07|| ||ChessNe1: it must be child's play if i got, but what other move was there?|
|Oct-15-07|| ||alphee: Nice stalemate with a queen sac!|
|Oct-15-07|| ||xKinGKooLx: This must be the easiest puzzle I have ever seen on the site so far. First of all, the white king can't move, and neither can the pawn. So it must be a rook move. Secondly, Black threatens Ra1 mate, and the only way to stop it is Ra8. After the black rook takes the white rook, white only has one (good) move - to promote the pawn to a queen. Puzzle solved.|
I know this was meant to be a "very easy" puzzle, but it was ridiculously easy.
|Oct-15-07|| ||ravadi: After 46.Ra8 Rc2 What is the winning line for white?|
|Oct-15-07|| ||Benzol: <ravadi> 47.Ra3+ King moves 48.h8=Q|
|Oct-15-07|| ||ChessPraxis: Funny!|
|Oct-15-07|| ||greensfield: White's obviously had it. Hang on stalemate's on 46. Ra8! Nice one for a Monday|
|Oct-15-07|| ||MaczynskiPratten: <kevin86>, nice spot on the maximummer for White - but in fact it is also a maximummer for Black as well! Rxa8 6 squares, longest move; Rxh8 7 squares, joint longest move!|
|Oct-15-07|| ||JohnTal: On Salwe's 11th move, couldn't he have forced Z-B's resignation with 11...Ncd6 12 Qg7 ...Qf6! retains the piece. Even after 13 Qf6 ...Nf6, 14 Re1+ ... Nde4 or Nfe4 setting Black up for 0-0 or moving the K to d1 -- get your K of the e file, get your light colored Bishop into the game and I think Z-B would have called it a day after 25 moves or so.|
Fellow GM's - what am I missing?
|Oct-15-07|| ||znprdx: <MAJ> I wasn't referring to anything Capablanca wrote specifically, just a vague recollection of some of his wins seemingly out of thin air. 27. White to move: down a pawn yet contolling the 7th rank and the e-file. I'm thinking Qd7 should at least get a pawn back due to back rank threats.|
|Oct-15-07|| ||vibes43: Yes, easy as a puzzle. But a good exercise any way because how many would have seen this on the board? Maybe now we will. Thanks, CG|
|Oct-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <znprdx> I see what you meant.|
Indeed, 27.Qd7 looks good, but despite controlling the 7th rank, white cannot do much there - the g7 pawn is protected. Qd7 gets one tempo (black would probably respond b4), but that's not enough for effective attack on g7. Pushing the pawn to h5 gets black's to respond h6 and that's pretty much it for the attack on g7.
The next vulnerable target might be f5, I suppose, but black can counter with an attack on the a-pawn ...
|Oct-16-07|| ||stanleys: <MostlyAverageJoe:> Think you're right.I saw my mistake - white have always checks,which don't allow black to bring the king into play.|
I never had a software to analyze games :)The problem here was that I only considered the same defensive idea as in the game
|Oct-16-07|| ||kevin86: A few things to add:
47 ♙h8=♗ is easily defeated by ♖g8 48 ♗ moves ♖g1#. Funny,if this was a problem,a nice reversal theme would be present -we would have gone from a stalemate situation to a zugzwang one.
Also,the maximummer theme is in place for black as well as white with one wrinkle: 47 ♙h8=♕ ♖a1 is also a maximum move,but it is a terrible blunder: White would make yet another max move at capture the rook at a1.
A special thanks to <mostlyaveragejoe> and <MaczynskiPratten> for pointing out these special wrinkles.
|Feb-16-08|| ||maxi: Oops, now I get your point, <MostlyAverageJoe>. OK.|
|May-18-09|| ||WhiteRook48: funny final position|
|May-27-09|| ||WhiteRook48: funny|
|Oct-19-14|| ||FSR: < JohnTal: On Salwe's 11th move, couldn't he have forced Z-B's resignation with 11...Ncd6 12 Qg7 ...Qf6! retains the piece. Even after 13 Qf6 ...Nf6, 14 Re1+ ... Nde4 or Nfe4 setting Black up for 0-0 or moving the K to d1 -- get your K of the e file, get your light colored Bishop into the game and I think Z-B would have called it a day after 25 moves or so.|
Fellow GM's - what am I missing?>
Sorry for the very belated response. In your line, White would regain the piece after 15.Nd2 f5 16.f3. Alternatively, if Black tries to keep the piece, he gets in big trouble. Opening Explorer
|May-25-15|| ||FSR: Long Tall Salwe. A great swindle.|
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