|Jul-11-03|| ||dinesh: if 39..Rxd7 40. Qh5+ Kg8 41. Qe8+ wins the rook back. |
|Jul-11-03|| ||rodolpheb: What about 39.e5 ? |
|Jul-11-03|| ||crafty: 39. e5 g8 40. g6 fxe5 41. d5+ f8 42. g5 (eval 3.57; depth 12 ply; 100M nodes)|
|Jul-11-03|| ||chessgames.com: Good work rodolpheb, you "cooked" the problem. Take full credit for 39.e5! |
|Jul-11-03|| ||Sneaky: At first crafty (and rudoplh) had me baffled but now I think I get it. 39.e5 and the threat becomes Qh5+ followed by Bd5+ and the attack looks almost irresistible (e.g. Qh7-Qg8#) |
|Jul-11-03|| ||ChessPraxis: I never saw the phrase "cooked the problem" before. Does it just mean to come up with an alternative solution? |
|Jul-11-03|| ||patzer2: The tactical theme of the game winning move is the simple queen "double attack," initiated by the bishop capture 39. Rxd7. White wins on material.|
I have heard of "cooking a solution" before, but as I am familiar with the term it is in reference to proving a problem solution incorrect (e.g. proving a problem solution to win, actually results in a loss or a draw). In this case, while 39. e5 is an excellent alternative, and Roldolpheb should rightly be commended for finding it, in no way does this alternative prove 39 Rxd7 to be incorrect or "cooked."
|Jul-11-03|| ||delf: 39. e5 Bf8 40. exf6 Rf7 41. Qh5 Rh7.. then what? 39. Rxd7 much more to the point.. |
|Jul-12-03|| ||Sneaky: <"cooked the problem"> |
Eugene Beauharnais Cook was the foremost American problemist of his day. He was born on May 17, 1830 in New York. His parents had become friendly with the elder brother of Napoleon I, Eugene Beauharnais (the former King of Naples), and named their son after him.
Although E.B. Cook learned chess at 11, he rarely played in tournaments and preferred the intricacies of composition. His first published composition appeared in 1850, but he began to publish regularly in Albion (New York), Staunton's The Chess Player's Chronicle, and The Illustrated London News under the name of E.B.C. of Princeton.
He originated themes with Pawn promotion and they quickly became very popular.
Although he entered only one problem tournament, he officiated at many others. His efficiency in finding errors in problems entered into chess language: to "cook" a problem.
|Jul-12-03|| ||euripides: I think a cook is a duplicate solution, not an error in the intended solution itself. |
|Jul-12-03|| ||patzer2: <delf> Perhaps you have cooked roldolpheb's 39. e5 (with your recommended 39...Bf8) as an alternative win (along with Crafty's computer analysis which apparently overlooked your strong 39...Bf8). My initial reaction was that after 39. e5 Bf8 40. exf6 Rf7 that 41. Bd5 wins for white, but I then saw that 41...Bc6 holds the position for black.|
One interesting try for white to press for advantage after 39. e5 Bf8 40. exf6 Rf7 41. Qh5+ Rh7 is 42. Qxh7+ Kxh7 43. Rxd7+ Kh8 44. Rxa7 Qxf6 45. Be4. However, even this active rook, two bishops and pawns versus queen, bishop and pawn continuation does not assure white a win. Nor do I see any other continuations in this line (after 39. e5 Bf8!) that offer white a sure winning advantage.
As you noted, Littlefield's 39. Rxd7! with a simple and sure winning advantage is more to the point for white.
|Jul-12-03|| ||Sneaky: <I think a cook is a duplicate solution, not an error in the intended solution itself.> That's right. In the world of chess problems a second solution is wart on the face of a beatiful composition. |
|Jul-12-03|| ||patzer2: "The question is" said Alice "whether you can make words mean different things." "The question is" said Humpty Dumpty "which is to be the master -- that's all."|
Lewis Carroll, Through The Looking Glass
|Jul-12-03|| ||patzer2: <Crafty> Can you find a win for white after 39. e5 Bf8? The win against the weak 39...Kg8 is clear, but can you produce a win against some real resistance in 39...Bf8. |
|Jul-12-03|| ||crafty: 39. e5 f8 40. h2 h7 41. d5 g7 42. f7 fxe5 43. xd7 (eval 4.46; depth 11 ply; 200M nodes)|
|Jul-12-03|| ||patzer2: <Chessgames.com/Sneaky> Crafty's 40. Kh2 is a subtle but strong winning move following 39. e5 Kf8, improving on Delf's 40 exf6 in this line. |
I had thought 40...Rg7 as an alternative in Crafty's line offered more resistance, but the following lines from chesslab.com computer analysis convinced me otherwise:
(19.42) 41. Qh4+ Kg8 42. Bd5+ Rf7 43. Rg2+ Bg7 44. Qxf6 Qxh3+ 45. Kxh3 Be6 46. Bxe6 Kh7 47. Qxf7
(11.93) 41. Qh4+ Kg8 42. Bd5+ Rf7 43. Qg4+ Bg7 44. Bxf7+ Kf8 45. e6 Bxe6 46. Rd8+ Ke7 47. Re8+ Kd7 48. fxe6+ Kc6 49. Qxg7
(8.65) 41. Qh4+ Kg8 42. Bd5+ Rf7 43. Bxf7+ Kxf7 44. Qh7+ Bg7 45. Rxd7+ Ke8 46. Qxg7 Qf3
(7.63) 41. Qh4+ Rh7 42. Qxf6+ Rg7 43. Qh6+ Kg8 44. Bd5+ Rf7 45. Bxf7+ Kxf7 46. Rxd7+ Ke8
Sneaky, although I don't consider a game tactic to be a chess composition, if you do and a "cook" is an "alternate solution," then I guess this "problem" is "cooked" thanks to crafty.
So, yes, both 39. e5 and 39. Rxd7 win in this game.
|Jul-12-03|| ||chessgames.com: 40.h2! is the kind of move that is hard for humans to see. In the heat of battle, crafty takes time-out for a precautionary move. Bravo! |
|Jul-12-03|| ||ughaibu: I thought the term "cook" was derived from "too many cooks spoil the broth". |
|Jul-12-03|| ||Larsker: Cook/cooked - some definitions from Dictionary of American Slang by Chapman:|
Cook: To falsify, tamper with. Examples: The British government cooked press stories shamelessly in order to deceive the Argentine enemy. / She cooked the statistics.
Cooked: Ruined; hopelessly beaten; finished. Example: After the fourth fumble they were cooked.
Cooked: Altered; falsified; doctored. Example: His miracle rise turned out to be based more on cooked books than shampooed rugs.
This last example reminds me of the cooked books at Enron and elsewhere during the stock market mania.
|Jul-15-03|| ||rodolpheb: Well, you're all wrong on one point : my first name's spelling is Rodolphe ;-)|
what does <chessgames.com> really mean by : "Take full credit for 39.e5! ", my english is not so fluent as to be sure of the meaning ?
|Jul-15-03|| ||Larsker: <what does <chessgames.com> really mean by : "Take full credit for 39.e5! ", my english is not so fluent as to be sure of the meaning?>|
They'll send you a check ;-)
|Jul-15-03|| ||chessgames.com: <full credit> I just mean that both 39.Rxd7 and 39.e5 are equally good answers. |