< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Oct-16-05|| ||darook: Nice combination, but is it really a forced win for White?!.|
After:40. d5 Fritz & Hiarcs both agree that: 40...exd5 is a grave mistake.
Black should have played (according to Fritz & Hiarcs) 40...e5 and there is no win for White in sight.
|Oct-16-05|| ||sfm: Can't find anything after 20.-,Ne5! It appears to me that chances are even. Best reply from white seems to be to retract his bishop, as more drama with 21.Nf5,NxN+ (with check,unfortunately) 22.gxN,exB seems to be a bad deal for white.|
So maybe 20.Bd5 is not theoretically the best move?
|Oct-16-05|| ||Fezzik: I haven't been able to crack 20...Ne5 yet. That's a really high quality blocking move. Having said that, White's pieces are more active than Black's even here and I don't know that it's only equal as sfm suggests.|
Do the computers offer anything better than 40.Bd5? If not, then at least 40.Bd5 was good in the sense that it encouraged Black to make a losing move.
|Oct-16-05|| ||EmperorAtahualpa: Nice combination! I saw that Black's e-pawn is critical and sacrificing Black's queen on g7 too, but I didn't get there completely. My idea was 40.Qxg7+ Kxg7 41.Nf5+ exf5 42.Re7+ etc. but Black has better defensive options than 42...exf5.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Open Defence: I went for 40 R x e6 as well|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Frankly: Richard Taylor - my line was similar to yours, but started with Bd5. After the pawn captures Bishop, Queen sac as in game, but then Rd7+, not Ne5+. That also seems to lead to a forced mate - which is simpler than the line chosen. Anything wrong with it?|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Easy Rider: Chess Tiger 15.0 gives 40 ... Ne5 41 Bg2 Nd7 42 Nf3 with an equal game.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||kevin86: What a queen sacrifice!! I thought for sure that the attack would run out of gas,but the two rooks and a group of busy pawns wove the tight mating net around the black king.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||aw1988: I didn't get close to solving this one...|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Rama: I liked 40 Bd5 exd5, 41 Re7 ..., and the Ng7 has no place to go and cannot be supported by the rest of the black army due to the lateral pin on the Nd7. Now I see that the pawn-push d5-d4 cuts off the Queen, so the sac IS necessary. This was very bold play by white.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||HelaNubo: I considered Bd5, but found no line after Ne5. Then I considered 40.Qxg7,Kxg7;41.Nf5+,exf5;42.Re7+, but Black has the surprising defence 42...Kh8! (not 42...Kg8? 43. Bd5+!) 43. Re8+ Nf8.
Either this is a "the sac is unsound" puzzle as <Granite> presumed, or the guys at chessgames.com did their first mistake;-)|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Averageguy: I looked at 40.Nf5, point being it is immune from capture due to 40...exf5 41.Re8+ Nxe8 42.Bd5+ Kf8 43.Qh8+. Ah well...|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Petrocephalon: After 39..Nd7, black threatens the lethal ..d5+, ..d4. So 40.Bd5 is a useful obstruction. If 40..Ne5, then 41.Be4, and white can now defend against 41..d5 with Bxh7+, Qxe5.|
If the bishop is accepted, the sac is sound; if declined, the offer is a sound defensive move. I.e. the puzzle is to find the best move, not necessarily a combination that wins in every possible variation.
|Oct-16-05|| ||Petrocephalon: I thought I'd read through the previous kibitzing thouroughly, but I see now that <Rama> made essentially the same point.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||apoorv: i thought of Rxe6, Nxe6, Bd5 (thought it looked strong)|
|Oct-16-05|| ||scottnewhouse: In case anyone missed it. Black by taking 41...exd5 he takes away a timely check. If the Black d pawn can advance then Black's Queen can get in a check and harass the White King. This would make White's game more difficult. Of course this is more or lessed forced by the placement of the Bishop. An excellent combination.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||sfm: <Petrocephalon..Rama> Yes, you are right. White is _forced_ to play 40.Bd5 - on the last move before the time control. And that's why a player of Cardoso's caliber faltered on his next move: The by far most dangerous traps are the ones that are forced moves!|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Petrocephalon: <sfm> "...the most dangerous traps are forced moves" Interesting observation.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||Richard Taylor: <Frankly: Richard Taylor - my line was similar to yours, but started with Bd5. After the pawn captures Bishop, Queen sac as in game, but then Rd7+, not Ne5+. That also seems to lead to a forced mate - which is simpler than the line chosen. Anything wrong with it?> I think you mean 40 Bd5 e:d5 41. Re7+ but Kg8 is the fly in the ointment. I cant see a win from there. If 41 ... Re8+ Nf8 an there is only a draw fo White. I think.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||wals: Black 40...Ne5 puts it right back in the game!|
|Oct-16-05|| ||snowie1: Give 'til it hurts, huh? That's my kinda game. Black's donations were too little & especially too late. Bd5 I saw, but I would have played the R down before sacing the Q. Re7..Nxe7
Rxe7 and Q activate. That's why I'm not a master level player.|
|Oct-16-05|| ||snowie1: <EmperorAtahualpa> Come on now, they're not integrated yet. It was the White Q sacrificed on g7. lol|
|Oct-17-05|| ||al wazir: Is there a forced win if black doesn't accept the sacrifice? After 40. Bd5 Nf8 41. Bxe6 Nxe6 42. Rxe6 Nxe6 43. Rxe6 Qf7, I don't see a win for white.|
|Oct-17-05|| ||Cyphelium: <al wazir> Better is probably 40.- f8 41. xe6, for example 41.- fxe6 42. xe6 xe6 43. xe6+ f8 44. f6+ e8 45. f5 d5+ 46. h4 and game over in view of 47. h8+.|
|Oct-17-05|| ||al wazir: <Cyphelium>: Thanks. Rossetto may well have calculated that line before offering the sacrifice.|
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