chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Arlette van Weersel vs Alexandra Kelly
Faber Cup (2001), Hyerois FRA, rd 1, Jul-08
French Defense: General (C00)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 236 more games of A van Weersel
sac: 23.Rxd4 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can learn a lot about this site (and chess in general) by reading the Chessgames Help Page. If you need help with premium features, please see the Premium Membership Help Page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Darn it! I missed the exchange sac. 0/1 this week. :(
Feb-10-14  cocker: What used to be a very enjoyable feature of Chessgames has been ruined for players like me.
Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <cocker> if you missed it, it likely was being careless and going for the obvious Queen sac on Monday. And don't think nobody else misses them. I missed one a while back that had everyone saying how easy it was, Bxf7+ being a move that I somehow missed, along with not playing out the line I thought was winning far enough. I know in my case, it's more laziness than anything.

Today's puzzle makes you see that 23 Qxf7+ Rxf7 24 Re8+ Qf8 doesn't work. Then you try again and probably see the real solution. But learn from it and try again tomorrow.

Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  paulalbert: Got Rxd4 OK seeing immediate Qxf7ch did not work, but didn't stop to consider Rxb3 try. Lesson: Do not rush to conclusions even on Monday without some careful analysis!
Feb-10-14  skeptic50: Got it in under a minute! Oh, wait, it's Monday - no big whoop.
Feb-10-14  morfishine: <mike1> In the 23...Rxb3 line, the problem with 24.Qe4 is <24...f5> thus 24.Qd1 is best
Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: The intermezzo- Rxd4 is necessary to chase the queen away.

Intermezzos on a Monday-I softly cry FOUL!

Feb-10-14  JG27Pyth: I got this instantly! Finally, I thought, Finally a Monday that I get in a split second. Not 10 seconds, not 1 second... but in a Nakamura like flash of crystalline tactical vision. I was quite pleased with myself, too...

Then I checked the solution.

:(

Well, Naka's been having trouble too lately.

Feb-10-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: The obvious displacement/pin/backrank line is

23 Rxd4 Qxd4
24 Qxf7+
with mate to follow.

The only serious variation I see is

23 Rxd4 Rxb3
24 Qd1/Qe4/Qg4

with material gain inevitable unless Black can whip up counterplay against the White king. So my main line is:

23 Rxd4 Rxb3
24 Qg4 f5
25 Rxd6

but strictly speaking Black has some less bad (yet still totally losing) defenses.

Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <kevin86> Fair point. But to add insult to injury today we have an intermezzo (23. Rxd4) followed by a desperado (23...Rxb3).

Or maybe we should say that 23...Rxb3 is also an intermezzo, so that makes today's solution an intermezzo followed by a desperado intermezzo.

Then again the singular of ravioli is a raviolo (even if the auto spell checker doesn't allow it ... grrrr), so we could have raviolo with parmagiano with our intermezzo desperado.

No?

I suppose it's analogous to those occasions where we get a zwischenzug zugzwang?

Feb-10-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: Yikes! I got sloppy on a Monday!!??!!

I forgot that Black's queen is protected.

Feb-10-14  ajile: I saw the 23..Rxb3 idea also so really this puzzle is a fail. Black didn't need to resign so soon.
Feb-10-14  BOSTER:


click for larger view

Black to play 20...
Rd2, or g6 and no problem.

Feb-10-14  schweigzwang: Thank god for Mondays.
Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <Monday, Monday!>

There are always mates for those who want to see them.

Feb-10-14  Patriot: <morf> I think you nailed it!

<PM(2): On 23.Rxd4 Rxb3 24.Qd1 Rxg3+ I think 25.fxg3 is best since 25.Kh2 Rd3+ 26.Rxd6 Rxd6 leaves Black with 2R vs Q+R which is better than being down a whole piece facing a mating attack> It took me a bit to think about this, because it's an interesting question of material and counterplay. With 25.fxg3, black also has some initiative with 25...Qxg3+ so black is up 3 pawns for a rook which is 5 - 3 = 2 pawns in white's favor. After 25.Kh2 Rd3+ 26.Rxd6 Rxd6, black is up two pawns and a rook for a queen which is 9.75 - 7 = 2.75 pawns in white's favor.

If instead 25.Kh2 Rd3+ 26.Rxd6 Rxd1 27.Rdxd1, white has a rook for 2 pawns which is 5 - 2 = 3 pawns in white's favor. While there is only a difference of 0.25 pawns in material, even if this wasn't the case I still completely agree with your line ending in 26...Rxd6 because that extra rook means more counterplay, even if it is still bleak for black.

But this is material evaluation. Houdini gives 25.Kh2 +4.64 pawns; 25.fxg3 is worth +2.28 pawns. That's the dynamic evaluation.

Feb-10-14  Patriot: <scormus> Thanks! You and <devere> are right about 25.Kh2.

When I worked on the Monday POTD, I was really expecting to solve it in less than 5 seconds. But this...NO WAY! There were several candidates and the queen sac on f7 was a very familiar pattern to me but black has ...Qf8, and it went from there.

Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: So, the game is <22...Bxd4? 23.Rxd4 Qxd4? 24.Qxf7+...>, where Black twice overlooks a fairly standard mating motive.

Black can certainly improve by <23...Rxb3!>, where the sting lies in lines such as <24.Qd1 Rxg3+!? 25.fxg3? Qxg3+ 26.Kf1 Qh3+ 27.Ke2 Qg2+ and 28...Qxa2>, and White win remains rather arduous.

But White too has improvements; for instance
<23...Rxb3! 24.Qg4 f5 25.Qd1 Rxg3+!? 26.Kh2!...>, where Black soon perishes because of extensive material loses.

Feb-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  sfm: Dear <Gypsy> I would really love to know where you got that drawing for your avatar. It was drawn 30 years ago by a friend of mine for a front page for our club magazine LVS.

Are you him? Are you Danish? It is on-line somewhere?

The evil-triumphant rook is a part of a larger drawing where a king gets mated.

Feb-10-14  MountainMatt: <cocker: What used to be a very enjoyable feature of Chessgames has been ruined for players like me.>

I'm with you, 100%. Yes, I got 23. Rxd4 (finally!), but I didn't really enjoy it, knowing that this is NOT A MONDAY-LEVEL PUZZLE! C'mon Chessgames, give us a break!

Feb-10-14  PJs Studio: M. Hassan and Phony Benoni described this position the way it needs to be taught. Nice.
Feb-10-14  MiCrooks: Hmmm...I went with Rxd4 but kept thinking there had to be a way to make Qxf7 work...it is only Monday. I think that finding Rxb3 Qd1 is a bit beyond your normal Monday fare...they just assume that Black is going to play as in the game and allow Qxf7? Hmmm...
Feb-11-14  Patriot: <MiCrooks> Yeah I thought it was bizarre that black made it so easy!
Feb-11-14  morfishine: <Patriot> Interesting points on material and dynamic evals. Whats lacking in even the strongest engine is the ability to evaluate the position or create an accurate 'Positional Eval' broken down in number form.
Feb-12-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: < sfm: Dear <Gypsy> I would really love to know where you got that drawing for your avatar. It was drawn 30 years ago by a friend of mine for a front page for our club magazine LVS.

Are you him? Are you Danish? It is on-line somewhere?

The evil-triumphant rook is a part of a larger drawing where a king gets mated.>

Sadly, I can not draw and I am not Danish. I was born in (back then) Czechoslovakia. Although I do not reside there now, I travel over often enough; and during my trips I like it when I travel trough Copenhagen, I really like the feel of the place.

An abbreviated story of The Dancing Rook on this site is roughly this:

Back in the early days, when this community was rapidly forming its habits and traditions, we were given a brilliant treat -- live-broadcast of the games from Kramnik-Leko World Championship Match (2004).

Perhaps you recall the tremendous first game of that match, Leko vs Kramnik, 2004? For us here, a serendipitous coincidence struck: As Kramnik's black rooks danced to their victory over in Brissago (and forced Leko's exhausted queen give up the fight), the Dancing Rook for the first time also danced its dance on the screen here, as if by magic. Students secretly programmed a little surprise for their professors, and for the rest of us, and that surprise worked exceedingly well. Thus we voted (begged, really) to keep the Dancing Rook celebrations of decisive games in live broadcasts as a permanent tradition from that point on.

My connection to the rook is also slightly serendipitous, much less so however. When premium memberships first came to be, I chose from then available avatars a black rook. It was a solid rook, of a bit brooding outlook though. A couple of years later, when the avatar version of the Dancing Rook became available, I somehow managed to trade. (Another user got the Dancing Rook first, but yielded it when he realized that I was a semi-permanent furniture around here.)

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
tactical
from 000_-> Middlegames Opp col Bishops 2 by whiteshark
97xd_French Disasters -Teh Dark Side of Chess
by whiteshark
23.?
from Favorite problems of the day (2) by Gambit86
23.? (February 10, 2014)
from Monday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
23.? (Monday, February 10)
from Puzzle of the Day 2014 by Phony Benoni


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC