< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Nov-27-07|| ||notyetagm: <Confuse: its cool how the queen has no escape : )>|
The sad point for Black.
|Nov-27-07|| ||savuflorin1983: After 24. ...Qa5, I think the best continuation is 25. Qh6 Qe1+ 26.Kh2 Qe5 27.Rxc8 and the queen can not parry the threats of both Nf6+ and Qxf8+|
|Nov-27-07|| ||Murphyman: Folks
Really liked DZechiel's posting today as working out all the lines for black is an example of what Dan Heisman calls "real chess".
I looked at about half or 2/3 of the lines and assumed Re8 must be the solution which gained white Q for R&N... an example of what Dan calls "hope chess"
Neatly underlines the difference in rating (playing strength) between myself & DZechiel and probably proves Dan's comments that a good player has a better thought process than a weaker one and is surprised by his opponent's replies less often.
|Nov-27-07|| ||patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, the decoy/deflection 24. Re1! forces the Queen to capture the troublesome Rook or to flee. In either case, White's sham sac offer wins.|
If Black captures the offending Rook with 24...Qxe1, then White gets back the Queen and more with the Knight Fork combination 25 Nf6+ Kh8 26 Nxe8 Rxe8 27 Bxc6 . If the Rook isn't captured, the Queen has no safe place to go, and so, as <dzechiel> notes, Black's surrender is forced.
P.S.: Esentially, this is a best play case of White winning decisive material with a decoy and a Knight Fork. However, if Black answers 24. Re1! with 24....Qb6, White has an amusing mate after 25. Qh6! Qd4 26. Rxc8 Qa1+ 27. Bf1 Nd8 28. Rxd8 Qg7 29. Nf6+ Qxf6 30. Rxf8# 1-0
|Nov-27-07|| ||Geronimo: Mostly Average Joe : You join Mikhail Bulgakov in the elite club of masters with chess playing cats!|
|Nov-27-07|| ||patzer2: Black probably needed to try 23...Bg7 to hold the position, since 23...b5?? lost immediately.|
In the opening, perhaps worth trying is 9.... Nad7 as in Kudrin vs J Benjamin, 2006, or the old main line 11...d5 as in Christiansen vs W Schmidt, 1980 or 11...Bf6 as in Tal vs Bagirov, 1979. Black's 11...Rc8 is apparently a deviation from the main line, which only appears once in the Opening Explorer -- perhaps because 12. d5 exd5 13. Bxb5 Qxb5 14. Nxd5 saddles Black with a backward and isolated pawn.
|Nov-27-07|| ||Chesstalesfan: "After 24. ...Qa5, I think the best continuation is 25. Qh6 Qe1+ 26.Kh2 Qe5 27.Rxc8 and the queen can not parry the threats of both Nf6+ and Qxf8+" according to Savoflurin.
A question why 27.Rxc8 and not directly 27.Qxf8+? A second question, let us say 27.Rxc8 Qg7 28.Nf6+ Qxf6 29. Qxf8+ Kh7 and what happens next?
Probably with the 24.Re8 move, the white won a rook, not a Queen. But if 29.Rf8+ the white wins the ..King. So the combination leads to either king and/or rook win. How deep is Chess even in the apparently very very simple positions!|
|Nov-27-07|| ||darook: LOL <MostlyAverageJoe> nice one :-)|
|Nov-27-07|| ||OhioChessFan: Murphyman: <I looked at about half or 2/3 of the lines and assumed Re8 must be the solution which gained white Q for R&N.>|
I think that treating these positions like puzzles is a disservice to yourself. Once in a while, Chessgames tosses in a position that is a real stinger to that mindset. I agree that it was very easy to see the first move, and realize the gig was up, without considering every possibility. So try to imagine yourself playing the game as the player with the move.
|Nov-27-07|| ||znprdx: <MAJ ...at the time the game was played, Wu Kaiyu was 15 years old, playing against an established IM> How easy is the win after the obvious? i.e. what is the most forcing stategy, keeping in mind the bishops of opposite color and the difference in experience? A 'C' player might have trouble getting more than a draw, notwithstanding the presumption of winning due to the hopelessly weak kingside and backward 'd6' pawn . I presume Black resigned as a matter of honor and respect for White's potential talent.|
|Nov-27-07|| ||patzer2: <Chesstalesfan>: <"After 24. ...Qa5, I think the best continuation is 25. Qh6 Qe1+ 26.Kh2 Qe5 27.Rxc8 and the queen can not parry the threats of both Nf6+ and Qxf8+" according to <Savoflurin>. A question why 27.Rxc8 and not directly 27.Qxf8+?> |
Both moves win easily, but 27. Rxc8 mates quicker (e.g. 27. Rxc8 Qg7 28. Nf6+ Qxf6 29. Rf8#). From a practical perspective, there's also nothing wrong with the "no brainer" 24...Qa5 25. Qxa5 Nxa5 26. Rxc8 when an extra Rook should force immediate resignation.
|Nov-27-07|| ||patzer2: <I presume Black resigned as a matter of honor and respect for White's potential talent.> He may also have resigned because he was down decisive material after 24...Qxe8 25. Nf6+ King moves 26. Nxe8 Rxe8 27. Bxc6 , figured his strong Master (per MAJ) opponent would win easily, and felt no need to "play it out."|
|Nov-27-07|| ||YouRang: The material is even, but the similarity stops there. Look at white's huge mobility advantage:|
White knight: Centralized and within checking range of the king (always dangerous).
Black knight: Relatively out of range.
White rook: Controls a whole rank & file.
Black rook: Can move to just 2 useless squares.
White bishop: Controls an open long diagonal.
Black bishop: Hemmed in.
White queen: Has range in almost every direction, including access to the opposing king's position at h6.
Black queen: Can move to just 2 safe squares.
This all leads to finding the solution pretty quickly: 24. Re8! and 24...Qxe8 due is met by the queen-winning knight fork. But black has little choice because white threatens 25. Qh6 with mate to follow.
|Nov-27-07|| ||kevin86: I see that not only is the queen lost,but black faces this surprize at the end:|
24...♕xe8 25 ♘f6+ ♔moves 26 ♘xe8 ♖xe8 27 ♗xc6 and white has queen and bishop for rook and bishop
|Nov-27-07|| ||alan11: Just a technicality, but everyone keeps saying the queen is lost. The queen can be exchanged for white's queen (on a5) The point is that black will then lose it's rook on c8. It doesn't matter in this game, but if the black rook on c8 were defended, Black could at least play on without losing material. Doesn't change the bad position, but saying the queen is necessarily lost seems incorrect.|
|Nov-27-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Geronimo: Mostly Average Joe : You join Mikhail Bulgakov in the elite club of masters with chess playing cats!>|
Yeah, and my cat is a real Behemoth, too.
|Nov-27-07|| ||patzer2: < alan11: Just a technicality, but everyone keeps saying the queen is lost. The queen can be exchanged for white's queen (on a5) The point is that black will then lose it's rook on c8.> Well that's one possibility. However, instead of exchanging Queen's and winning a Rook White can force mate after 24...Qa5 25. Qh6! (and possibly force Black to give up the Queen anyway to increase the number of moves till mate if time on the clock is a factor). See previous posts for detail.|
|Nov-27-07|| ||DarthStapler: I got this pretty quickly|
|Nov-27-07|| ||MiCrooks: I find the discussion of the follow up (in this case) pretty silly. Are people seriously arguing that anyone would have trouble winning this a Rook up? (after Qa5 trade queens and take the rook for instance).|
Sure Qh6 is better but in a tourney unless I had lots of time left to make sure I wasn't missing something, going into a game with Queen's gone a rook up is pretty simple.
Also, I saw someone mention that QxR instead of Qa5 lead to Q for a R+N, but they missed that Black's N is haning to the B once the R takes on e8. So Q for R is all.
Either way, simple wins so easy for Black to resign.
|Nov-27-07|| ||alphee: I think I love tuesday puzzles ... and <dzechiel> analysis of course as they always outlines something I missed and I often miss a lot.|
|Nov-27-07|| ||centercounter: Nice Monday puzzle!|
|Nov-27-07|| ||vibes43: I <dzechiel>ized this one.|
|Nov-27-07|| ||GannonKnight: Got it! :)|
|Nov-27-07|| ||xrt999: Black's play move 13 on is suspect and leads to a shaky position|
|Nov-27-07|| ||newzild: This took me nearly three seconds.
Surely too easy, even for a Tuesday?
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