< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|May-03-05|| ||bassplayer: Spotted the Qh8+ line right away and took it as far as winning the Bishop and swapping Queens and my Rook on the 7th rank. That made me happy! Never looked at Nxe4. Guess I'll still put it in the plus column.|
|May-03-05|| ||YouRang: I found it, but of course, knowing it is a "white to move and win" situation helps. I doubt that I would have seen that Q sac OTB.|
|May-03-05|| ||zb2cr: <who>,
In your given line 28.Qh8+, Bxh8; 29.Rxh8+, Kg7; 30.Rh7+, Kg8; 31.Rxd7, Red8; 32 Rxb7, Na6. What about 33 Rh1, threatening mate in two via g7 and Rh8#?
If Black moves 34 ...Rdb8, White can reply 35 Re7, Re8; 36 Rxa7, Rxa7; 38 Bxa7, Rd8; 39 Rh7 with a brutal threat of d7 & Bb6.
|May-03-05|| ||Gypsy: <nsteinme: ... Am I missing the mate sequence, or is it considered won at this point in the game to be a bishop up? Thanks. > I think, both. The extra bishop is certainly a winning adavantage. But that d7 rook is not as lonely as you thing. For illustration, there lines like this one: 30...Kxg6 31.Rxd7 Rb8(?) 32.Rg1+ Kh6 33.Rh1+ Kg6 34.R7h7 and 35.R1h6#.|
|May-03-05|| ||kevin86: This game is not a mate,nor is it a queen sac-but the loan of a queen at shark rates-a piece interest.|
At first,I looked for a queen sac followed by a two rook mate-but found the winning skewer.
|May-03-05|| ||niemzo: Is this called the Pribyl variation?|
|May-03-05|| ||Rank Amateur: Did black ever have anything going in this game? By move 20 white has all the space. Black has a big pawn wall that's about to crack and expose the king. Plenty of black pieces on the board, but only the bishop on g7 in position to assist the king. Is this where the Pirc defense is supposed to go?
Even at move 10, that long wall was in place with an empty king side. Why castle into that?|
|May-03-05|| ||Madman99X: I don't think there's any debate about whether or not Qh8+ wins, or Nxe4 wins. It simply looks like the latter wins much more quickly.|
|May-03-05|| ||Rocafella: Couldn't you have Qxg7+ followed by Rh7+|
|May-03-05|| ||Knight13: Even a international master can overlook these Qh8+!! moves!|
|May-03-05|| ||WannaBe: <Rocafella> I take it you mean 28. ♕xg7+
then 28. ... ♕xg7 you are trading ♕ for ♗
then if you 29. ♖h7+ ♕xh7
|May-03-05|| ||OverDjinn: <Rank Amateur> No, This is not where the Pirc is supposed to go. The opening was played poorly by black. After 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Be3 c6! (Playing to essentially be a tempo up on the queenside if white mindlessly decided to exchange dark bishops) 5. h3 Nbd7 6. f4 and either a) 6…e5 (7. Qf3 Qa5 8. Bd3 Bg7 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. f5 b5 11. g4 b4) or b) 6…b5!, which prevents 7. e5 in view of 7…b4 8. exf6 (8. Nce2 Nd5) bxc3 9. bxc3 Nxf6, but the move also works against white’s main idea of 7. Qf3 b4 8. Nb1 Bb7 9. Nd2 Qc7 10. Bd3 Bg7 11. Ne2 c5 (Berezuk-Stohl, 1999). 7. a3 looks good for black in view of the new target after 7…e5, but 7…Nb6 to meet e5 by moving the knight to d5, and 8. Nf3 a6 9. Bd3 e6! 10. O-O c5 is fine for black ( 11. f5 exf5 12. exf5 c4 13. fxg6 hxg6 14. Be2 Nbd5 15. Bg5 Be7. After 7. Bd3 black plays 7…e5 8. Qf3 Bb7, or 7…Bb7 8. e5 b4 9. Ne4 Nd5.|
|May-03-05|| ||RookFile: I think it's right that ...Qb6
is awful. with these Pirc setups,
you're usually playing for ...e5,
and obviously black can't
do it with the bishop on e3.
So, you can play for c6 and d5, but
it usually goes 1. e4 c6 2. d4 g6
3. f4 d5 4. e5 h5. A lot of times,
black doesn't even develop the f8
bishop to g7, if white plays knight
out to c3 and castles queenside, black
is playing ...e6 and Bb4. In this
game, black plays ...d6 and then
...d5, which doesn't make strategic
|May-03-05|| ||who: <zb2cr> yes 33.Rh1 also works;|
30.Rh7+, Kg8; 31.Rxd7, Red8; 32 Rxb7, Na6 33.Rh1 Rdb8 35.Rxa7 Rxa7 36.Bxa7 Rd8 37.Rh7 Nb8 38.BxN RxB 39.Re7 Rd8 40.g7 followed by 41.d7 42. Re8 and one of the pawns must queen.
however 33. Bxa7 prevents any complications with Rb8 and follows the principal of securing one's position before proceeding with an attack.
|May-03-05|| ||notyetagm: One defender (Black g7-bishop guarding h8) cannot keep out two attackers (White h7-queen and h1-rook).|
|May-03-05|| ||notyetagm: Black may be rated 2371 but he looks dead lost to me after only about 19 moves.|
|May-03-05|| ||notyetagm: <fenno: I find this game very encouraging. I mean, if an IM with 2371 elo can play a non-blitz game with style so reminiscent of my lousiest 5-min performance,...>|
You said it, fenno. I would be ashamed to play a 1 0 bullet game as badly as Black did here let alone a slow OTB tournament game.
|May-03-05|| ||Halldor: I began checking the queen sacrifice 28. Qh8+ briefly this morning but did some stupid mistake which I can't even recall now and began thinking about 28. Nxe4... - Now when I had time for this again I put up the position and was about to start a deep analysis..., and then suddenly I saw that the solution was there very obvious...: 28. Qh8+ BxQ 29. RxB+ Kg7 30. Rh7+ and wins the hanging Queen. - Very nice puzzle!|
|May-03-05|| ||brainzugzwang: <niemzo> Yes, I believe the combination of a Pirc set-up with c6 is called alternatively the Pribyl or Czech Defense.
<maxundmoritz> Wow! Like many others, I really only looked hard at working the h-file (which also wins, of course). I was preparing to argue with your 28. Ne4, but I don't see any escape for Black - the d-and g-pawns take everything away. Can't even find a desperation sac to bail Black out. Guess there's a lesson here about letting your opponent have two passers on the sixth while still in the middlegame!|
|May-03-05|| ||OverDjinn: <RookFile> Where on earth did you come up with the idea that 1. e4 c6 2. d4 g6
3. f4 d5 4. e5 h5. is “usual”? This is certainly awful play for a Pirc player.|
|May-03-05|| ||Richard Taylor: <OverDjinn> interesting anlysis of the Pirc - Black didn't play it too well indeed he has to counter quickly with b5 or e5 as in your analysis/notes...|
When you say <mindlesssly exchanging the black-squared Bishop> - that is interesting - sometimes it's advantageous - but, yes, although in Kasp-Topalov K exchanges the B, I have found it doesn't always pay as the Black squared (White) B is useful to white and so on... so as Black I will keep that in mind (to think before mechanically trying to "kill" the 'Dragon' Bishop) as I sometimes transpose to a Pirc/Robatsh via the Alekhines...
|May-03-05|| ||OverDjinn: How strong a player are you? With the black pieces I can’t tell you how many times I get an advantage in the center because white insists on playing Be3, Qd2 and Bh6. After Bxh6 and Qxh6 his queen is drawn away from the central action. This is why black plays “the war of the tempo” in this line, trying to secure further advantages on the queenside. Bh6 rarely inconveniences black permanently. 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Be3 c6! 5. Qd2 b5! 6. Bd3 Nbd7 7. Nf3 e5!? 8. dxe5 dxe5 9. h3 Bb7! and now if 10. Bh6 Bxh6 11. Qxh6 Ng8!, with the idea of 12. Qg7 Qf6 and black is a bit better.|
|May-04-05|| ||keypusher: OverDijinn -- Patzers like Pavel Blatny and Artashes Minasian have employed the line you consider <awful for a Pirc player>.|
|May-04-05|| ||Kingdumb: Good grief, even a crappy player like myself can see that black played a very poor game. How can you let both the K and Q pawns into the 5th and 6th ranks. Black played way too passively and cautiously and ended up boxing himself in. He literally strangled himself to death in this game. Even I could have done better and that's sad.|
|May-04-05|| ||OverDjinn: <keypusher> sarcasm noted.|
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