< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Nov-13-13|| ||unferth: is it more embarrassing to lose a miniature cleanly or to flop around for ten pointless moves to avoid the appearance of having done so?|
|Nov-13-13|| ||Fish55: Looked at 14. c5 first, then realized that 14. Bf4 is a stronger execution of the same idea.|
|Nov-13-13|| ||LoveThatJoker: <14. Bf4!> 1-0
A) 14...Qxf4 15. Bg6#
B) 14...Qd4 15. Bg6+ and 16. Qxd4
C) 14...Qd7 15. Bxc7 Qxc7? 16. Bg6#
D) 14...e5 (seemingly 'best') 15. Bxe5 Qh6 (15...Qxe5 16. Bg6#; 15...Qd7 16. Bg6+ Kd8 17. Bxh8 ) 16. Bxh8!
|Nov-13-13|| ||LoveThatJoker: Oh ok, I see: 14...Qxf4 15. Bg6+ is not mate because of the interposition 15...Qf7.|
I still picked the best continuation however. I can just picture myself at the board going, "Not a mate! Oh well, guess I'll just pick up that Q!"
|Nov-13-13|| ||M.Hassan: "Medium/Easy"
White to play 14.?
White is a pawn down.
If file d was not occupied by black Queen, then Bg6#. To divert the Queen is one way to approach this puzzle:
<again if...Qxc7 16.Bg6#>
White is better.
|Nov-13-13|| ||FSR: I found this a little tricky. I spent several minutes looking at 14.Bg6+ Kd8 and now 15.Qe2 (my first thought) or 15.Bf4 (my second). Then the immediate 14.Bf4! dawned on me. Black loses his queen for two bishops after 14...Qxf4 15.Bg6+, and 14...e5? 15.Bxe5 doesn't help. And queen moves that protect the knight, such as 14...Qd7, don't really, since 15.Bxc7 Qxc7 is met by 16.Bg6#.|
|Nov-13-13|| ||FSR: Black certainly played provocatively, and got duly punished for it.|
|Nov-13-13|| ||morfishine: It doesn’t get much uglier than this
<14.Bf4> This nice deflection wins the Black Queen for two Bishops.
<14...Qxf4> Forced; after 14...e5 15.Bxe5 Qd7 16.Bg6+ Kd8 17.Bxh8 Black has lost a rook
<15.Bg6+ Qf7 16.Qd3 Rg8 17.Bxf7+ Kxf7 18.Nc3>
click for larger view
White has an easy win
PM: In this line, even better is 18.Qh7+ Rg7 19.Qxh5+ Kg8 20.Nc3
|Nov-13-13|| ||Swedish Logician: The method with an early e6 sacrifice often works well.
Bogoljubov vs Tarrasch, 1925 is a classic example |
<An Englishman> I think you are right about 7. – g5.
I was reminded of the game Spielmann vs S Landau, 1933
say at about move 13.
|Nov-13-13|| ||agb2002: White has the bishop pair for a bishop, a knight and a pawn.|
Black is probably considering 14... Nd7 followed by ... 0-0-0.
If the black queen were not on the d-file, say on b6 for example, White would deliver mate with 14.Bg6#. Hence, divert the black queen with 14.Bf4:
A) 14... Qxf4 15.Bg6+ Qf7 16.Bxf7+, etc.
B) 14... Qd7(8) 15.Bxc7 and Black loses a piece at least because 15... Qxc7 allows mate 16.Bg6#.
C) 14... e5 15.Bxe5 adds a pawn to Black's losses.
|Nov-13-13|| ||whiteshark: You Don't Mess with the Zoltan|
|Nov-13-13|| ||Penguincw: 14.Bf4! Shocking! I had ideas of 14.Bg6.|
|Nov-13-13|| ||benjamincito: very nice play|
|Nov-13-13|| ||Patriot: Tricky Wednesday.
After toying with 14.Bg6+ I decided there was nothing to it. But after looking over a few threats I finally noticed 14.Bf4.
14...Qxf4 15.Bg6+ Qf7 16.Bxf7+
14...e5 15.Bxe5 Qd7 16.Bxc7 Qxc7 17.Bg6#
14...Qd7 15.Bxc7 (similar to above)
|Nov-13-13|| ||kevin86: I tried Bg6+ and realized that to chase the queen away from the d-file mean total ruin for black-if not checkmate.|
|Nov-13-13|| ||keypusher: Gosh, 14.Bf4 would make me so happy to play.
Some very curious opening decisions by Black -- Alekhine's Defense is hard enough to manage as it is.
|Nov-13-13|| ||Domdaniel: <unferth> -- < is it more embarrassing to lose a miniature cleanly or to flop around for ten pointless moves to avoid the appearance of having done so?>|
Neither. Embarrassment shouldn't really be a factor. If you're lost, you're lost -- and squirming on for a few moves is irrelevant.
I suppose we've all won (and lost) games like this. True, losing in 10 or 12 moves can be embarrassing, and one tends to stumble on for a few moves to lessen the humiliation. Does it make much of a difference? No, not really.
|Nov-13-13|| ||keypusher: <unferth: is it more embarrassing to lose a miniature cleanly or to flop around for ten pointless moves to avoid the appearance of having done so?>|
The former. Especially if your game winds up in a database and gets unearthed by sadists searching for miniatures. You might even wind up in a book as an example of What Not to Do. Far better to flop around.
|Nov-13-13|| ||chrisowen: Tin leg bade for one flight in every a delve deem,
cuffed in d3 fad duffed be see info ok it now in,
spring bishop a get f4 ok see etc hoofed etc f4 l0 win radar in churlish aperture am d3 in g6 see huffed effect see to having good genials hind a
maneovre in d3 and c1 edify ohdoor chubb hook strip d6 in color cad me f4 enough in deed he ja fable,
safes effect free foilable dig da query d6 queen damage off cede changed aim hoof advantage a boom 14.Bf4 freed a key believe nearly one fork walled chin d6 bin for difficile ogle a mind bear up tour in might am clop a king ha 8e general kind aim eh engages the g6 or fed in dead of mack inceed came freed g6 check in a length in picking 8e he spark,
efface off f4 either bind a gen d3 arm f7 cageing ok
it is wormed in hello c7 b8 offside allows in
radical cull us d3 see the good math in c7 knight a
b8 cable too queens a bad form in pocket accustom in a toured queen d1 might you in e2 etc f1 slide d1 winning a mind 14.Bf4 Qd7 15.Bxg6+ opin engages 8e king it is tucked about d6 scan e2 you lately a neddy 15...Kd8 16.Qe2 Bg7 17.Rd1 (5.52)
Alternative in blood a hoof 14.Bg6 Kd8 15.Qc2 Bg7
16.Rd1 fingers a check in d4 (2.40).
Ringer gifter f7 accede good game hoof I da bind flubb in fad magic bin to a dilemma king in effect for flood am d8 cant escape super d6 trapped see having principle thaw in drab inch effect ooh a feed 14....Qxf4 15.Bg6+ Qf7 16.Bxf7+ suffer crimped,
queen down in jails effete am including back apparently clean jangle d6 off and running e8 up a paving 16...Kxf7 (6.79)
Siled at all encompass ignoble mission aim in no time like d5 and c7 good account I cost 14.Bf4 faff I gunned queen down in e8 light he drum a g6 or,
keyeing a fog f4 indeed see qu in cackle f7 ah be knights b8 and er c7 it brave in bowing f7 etc ogle,
too queen f7 looses took a forage 16.Bxf7+ Kxf7 light go bet effervescent bishop swap off to pieces,
for a f7 queen boggle at see h6 in elevates a bet river affable give go ok line l0 why wasted in e6 too bishop reticence mangle f7 a gripper 17.f3 g3 18.Qd4 Kg8 19.Qe5 Nba6 20.Qxg3+ eg I ment 3 clap up pain staking g8 out a leg in boot 20...Bg7
21.Nc3 Kf7 22.Qf4+ Ke8 23.Rad1 rsvp god rc8 etc tie up ride a lion (8.62).
|Nov-13-13|| ||perfidious: <unferth: is it more embarrassing to lose a miniature cleanly or to flop around for ten pointless moves to avoid the appearance of having done so?>|
Unpleasant as it has been to lose some miniatures-some of which repose here at CG-I have never really thought about it.
We may readily infer Black's attitude in the following game towards your question: Nunn vs Kiril Georgiev, 1988.
See the very first kibitz, which corroborates Nunn's remark that many journals gave that gem as ending at move ten.
|Nov-13-13|| ||BOSTER: <keypusher Far better to flop around> At least you have a chance to make a greater number of gross blunders.|
|Nov-13-13|| ||Shams: Some writers have referred to the act of playing on to avoid being on the wrong end of a miniature as "detonating an anti-publication device".|
|Nov-13-13|| ||Marmot PFL: Cute problem. Black has to watch out for all sorts of traps in the Alekhine's Defense. h6-g5 looks like a bad plan.|
|Nov-14-13|| ||Abdel Irada: The first inclination is to play 14. Bg6+, with an eye to pinning the queen with a later Rd1. However, this is not fast enough, and Black seems to escape safely with 14. ...Kd8.|
But what if that queen weren't on the d-file? Would that check on g6 perhaps come with greater force?
|Nov-14-13|| ||BOSTER: Certainly, in my comment <you> supposed to be<we>.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·