< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Mar-16-11|| ||OhioChessFan: <takchess> if you were looking for mate, I am betting your first looked at 23. Bd3. I did. However, you can't play Bd3, because the g2 Pawn will be undefended and Black's King has a nice cubbyhole on c7. ie 23. Bd3 Kc7 and now the Pawn has to be defended and Black has the initiative for a few moves. 24. Kf1 e4 25. Bxe4 Bxc3 and I think White is still winning but converting an extra Pawn in that position will be tough.|
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|Mar-16-11|| ||Funicular: Funny how moves 17, 21, and 24 show classical computer-like tactics that we usually overlook when playing a bullet game. Classical pawn grabbing maneuvers where you always end up with a worse position.|
|Mar-16-11|| ||Gilmoy: <Once: ... work backwards from what we want to achieve.> Like the old masters who asked Capablanca e.p. for his opinion on an endgame. (Capa promptly wiped all the pieces off the board, set them up on the 6th and 7th ranks, and said, That's the ideal arrangement, now get there.)|
<sevenseaman: A skewer! What is it?> Think shish-ke-bob. As a military term, it fell out of use when spears and lances got trumped by gunpowder. (For today's kids, you'd have to say "an attack with piercing special" :)
|Mar-16-11|| ||Penguincw: Yes.I got it right.Bd6 threatens mate on b8.|
|Mar-16-11|| ||sevenseaman: <Funicular><Funny how moves 17, 21, and 24 show classical computer-like tactics that we usually overlook when playing a bullet game.>|
All three moves are products of extraordinary thought process. Move 21 is a real charmer as it offers the bait of a piece for a mate on the hop.
This Naser Al Sayed must have been quite a character. I'm impressed with his thinking 'out of the box' down the spine of this game.
|Mar-16-11|| ||sevenseaman: <Gilmoy> <shish-ke-bob> Nice.. and appetising!|
|Mar-16-11|| ||gofer: 23 Bd6 Kd8 24 Bxc6 Bc8
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If white plays Rb8 trying to create a king-pin on the back rank black can ignore
it and play e4! Attacking both Pc3 and Pg2. Also the pin doesn't work as Bc6
has to come to b7 to attack Bc8 at which point Kd7 removes the issue and suddenly
black is attackin both bishops which forces white to trade off rooks and LSBs.
But, and here's the big BUTT, that's all white needs to do! Trading off rooks and
LSBs leaves black in real trouble!
I tried this out on crafty and the win is quite quick even though black
trades off in a rather round about way... 1 Rb8 Rg4 2 Bb7 Rc4 3 Rxc8+ ...
|Mar-16-11|| ||alachabre: I want to take advantage of Black's messy back rank. 23. Bd6, threatening mate on b8, is the move that first naturally springs to mind. It would be really nice to be able to clear the back rank of the rook and bishop on g8 and h8, and that would be worth some investment, if the opportunity arises.|
23. Bd6 Kd8
24. Re8+ Bc8
25. Bxc6 wins another pawn and keeps Black pretty bottled up, but is there more? OTB I would probably be happy with these gains. Let's make a "natural" move for Black:
25. ... Rxg2
26. Bb7 and the cheese is beginning to bind. So far so good. Probably a better move for Black at 25, but first is there better at 23?
23. ... Be8, as far as I can see right now, the only other move that stops checkmate.
24. Rb8+ Kd7
25. Bxc6+ Kxc6, I don't think that does it for me.
25. Bc5 Kc7
25. ... Rxg2
26. Rb7+, among several other possibilities.
23. Bd6 appears to be a strong move that keeps Black tied up while White harvests pawns. There may be something that wins faster, but I like to play winning moves, no matter how slow!
|Mar-16-11|| ||knight knight: Wednesday, white to play, pawn ahead.
23. Bd6 is the first move that springs to mind, threatening 24. Rb8#. There are two defences:-
a) 23...Kd8 24. Rb8+ Bc8 25. Bxc6 now two pawns ahead and black is in a troublesome pin
b) 23...Be8 24. Bxc6! Bxc6 (forced) 25. Rb8+ Kd7 26. Rxg8 Kxd6 27. Rxh8 Bxg2 white emerges the exchange + one pawn ahead.
|Mar-16-11|| ||alachabre: I noticed an interesting thing about the way I calculate a tree after reading some of the analyses to today's puzzle.|
23. Bd6 Be8
I didn't look at this (best) move in this variation, even though one of my objectives when I first analyzed the position was picking off the Black pieces on g8 and h8, and investing material to that end. I believe that I rejected (or did not even consider) that move because I had first looked at it in the line:
23. Bd6 Be8
24. Rb8+ Kd7
25. Bxc6+?, and having rejected it here, did not revisit it as a possibility one move earlier. Lesson hopefully learned. I also consider that since 24. Rb8+ is also clearly winning, it did not occur to look for something better.
|Mar-16-11|| ||alachabre: <Once - the British soldier who had "Dessert Rats" tough-stickered about his person> |
So, maybe he just really likes ice cream and cheesecake?
|Mar-16-11|| ||Fuegoverde: 23 Bd6, 24 Bd8 Bxc6, 25 Bxc6 Rb8+ wins the exchange|
|Mar-16-11|| ||sevenseaman: < gofer: 23 Bd6 Kd8 24 Bxc6 Bc8>|
Valid point and a good aspect that I earlier missed. I visited the link you provided. We were quite smugly celebrating the 'quick solution' as it agreed with the game text.
White ultimately wins but the game passes into the computer domain from the human; and to that extent it may not have come out as a <CG> puzzle.
|Mar-16-11|| ||KingV93: Got this one pretty quickly, probably because there are no Queens so I wasn't looking for a checkmate per se, just the best move. A habit I must employ regardless of what's on the board.|
Replaying the game I thought 10.Bh6 would be played and didn't foresee the 10.Bd3 h-pawn advance plan which worked quite well. Also enjoyed the Bxg6 and Qxe5 moves. They make it look like White was pushing Black around pretty easily.
|Mar-16-11|| ||cyclon: 23.Bd6 Be8 24.Bxc6 Bxc6 25.Rb8+ Kd7 26.Rxg8 should win.|
|Mar-16-11|| ||kevin86: I saw this one totally:23 d6 d8 24 b8+ c8 25 xc6 is crushing...|
|Mar-16-11|| ||stst: 23. Bd6 threatening Rb8. To resolve this the Bk K must move to d8.
Then not Rb8 first, but tighten the rope by 24. Bxc6, if Bk Bxc6 then 25. Rb8+ winning the Bk R. But if Bk Bc8 to interpose, then still 25. Rb8 pinning the B and K, and later 26. Ra1 and take the a2P to create a passing P on a-file.|
|Mar-16-11|| ||agb2002: White is a pawn up.
The airy position of the black king and the poorly coordinated black pieces invite to play 23.Bd3, threatening 24.Ba6+ Kc7 25.Rb7+ Kc8 26.Rxa7+ Kb8 27.Rxd7, etc:
A) 23... Be8 24.Ba6+ Kc(d)7 25.Rb7+ Kc8 26.Bh4 (the black rook is the target of a discovered check)
A.1) 26... Bd7 27.Rxa7+ Kb8 28.Rxd7 + - [B+2P].
A.2) 26... Rg6 27.Re7+ Kd8 28.Rf7+ B(R)f6 29.Bxf6+ R(B)xf6+ 30.Rxf6 + - [R+P].
B) 23... Rd8 24.Ba6+ Kc7 25.Bxd8+ Kxd8 26.Rb8+ + - [R+P].
C) 23... c5 24.Ba6+ Kc7 25.Rb7+ Kc6 26.Rxa7 Kb6 27.Rxd7 Kxa6 28.Rd8 Rxd8 29.Bxd8 + - [2P].
Another option is 23.Bd6, threatening mate at once:
A) 23... Be8 24.Bxc6 Bxc6 25.Rb8+ Kd7 26.Rxg8 Kxd6 27.Rxh8 Bxg2 28.Rh7 + - [R+P vs B].
B) 23... Kd8 24.Bxc6
B.1) 24... Bxc6 25.Rb8+ transposes to A.
B.2) 24... Rg7 25.Rb8+ Bc8 26.Bxe5 Rh7 27.Bxh8 Rxh8 28.Bb7 Kc7 29.Rxc8+ Rxc8 30.Bxc8 Kxc8 31.Ke2 + - [3P].
B.3) 24... Bf6 25.Rb8+ Bc8 26.Bb7 Kd7 27.Bc5 a5 28.Rxc8 Rxc8 29.Bxc8+ Kxc8 30.Ke2 + - [2P].
23.Bd6 is probably simpler than 23.Bd3.
|Mar-16-11|| ||doubledrooks: After 23. Bd6 Kd8 24. Bxc6 Bc8 I went with 25. Rd1, and now:|
a. 25...e4 26. Be5+ Ke7 27. Bxh8 Rxh8 28. Bxe4
b. 25...Bd7 26. Bxe5 Bxe5 27. Rxd7+ Kc8 28. Rxa7 Bxc3+ 29. Ke2
|Mar-16-11|| ||estrick: <scormus: <Once> |
<... the line is somewhat "iffy" for black> Thanks for the stats. I refrained from looking that up; interesting they give some support to my gut feeling.>
It's the same opening played by Guy West vs Kasparov in a POTD last week.
In this game Todorovic retreated his bishop to e7 instead of f8. But, I think West said in his comments about the game that it's a weak variation, and he only played it to avoid more heavily analyzed lines.
|Mar-16-11|| ||OhioChessFan: <agb> after 23. Bd3, then 23...Kc7 and there's no check for White and the g2 Pawn is hanging, which is far better for Black. I think White is still winning. And I agree Bd6 is much simpler.|
|Mar-16-11|| ||wals: Got most of it.
Rybka 4 x 64 : d 17 : 3 min :
18...Bd7, +1.42. Best, Bb7, +0.67.
19...0-0-0. +4.54. Best, f5, +1.34.
|Mar-16-11|| ||WhiteRook48: I went for 23 Bd6 because the threats of Rb8+ are too strong|
|Mar-16-11|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: White is up a passed g-pawn, but that is only part of white's advantage. White's bishops are far more active and can assist the white rook to penetrate. |
The routine 23.Bd6 wins easily with accurate play. Black can defend the mate threat but can't avoid further material loss:
A) 23... Be8 24.Bxc6! Bxc6 25.Rb8+ Kd7 26.Rxg8 Kxd6 27.Rxh8 Bxg2 28.Rh7+ with R+P for B, an easy win.
B) 23... Kd8 24.c4! (24.Rb8+ Bc8 25.Bxc6 e4 allows some counterplay) Rg4 25.f3! Rxg2 26.Rb8+ Bc8 27.c5 (the point) and now black has no defense against 28.Bxc6 followed by Bb7 winning a piece; e.g. 27... Kd7 28.Bxc6+ Kxc6 29.Rxc8+ K any 30.Rxh8 and white is a piece and a pawn ahead.
Perhaps there is something more direct in line B - time to review.
|Mar-16-11|| ||Penguincw: Nice puzzle.|
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