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Mikhail Chigorin vs Semion Alapin
Unknown (1885), unknown
Italian Game: Scotch Gambit. Anderssen Attack (C56)  ·  1-0


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Given 67 times; par: 24 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
Jul-29-02  jazinger54: where do we go now?
Jul-31-02  Oklings: How Do I Play Chess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Premium Chessgames Member
  refutor: can't play chess here...this site is for study and analysis try or
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: Instead 15...Bf5 Black may have played 15 ... Rc8 (or ...Rb8) and avoided the immediate mate.

E.g. 15. ...Rc8 16. Qh5 Kf8 and the Black king escapes to the queenside.

Aug-01-02  marekg248: Yes, Sneaky, but then White would play 17. Qg7 and that is it again.
Am I right?-)
Oct-13-05  netlava: uhhh I don't see the ending.
Premium Chessgames Member
  aw1988: If Nxe5, Qe7#, while I suppose the intent is Rg5-g8...
Premium Chessgames Member
  gambitfan: Anti Max Lange:

1.e4 e5 2.♘f3 ♘c6 3.♗c4 ♘f6 4.d4 exd4 5.O-O ♘xe4 6.♖e1 d5 7.♗xd5 ♕xd5 8.♘c3

The Max Lange attack is:

1.e4 e5 2.♘f3 ♘c6 3.♗c4 ♘f6 4.d4 exd4 5.O-O ♗c5 6.e5!?

5. ... ♘xe4 seems to be a refutation of the famous so called Max Lange attack...

Premium Chessgames Member
  nikolaas: Hello all!
It's been a while since I visited this site, but since I had some spare time I decided to study a random game. I thought I might just as well share my ideas about it, so you may correct me.

8...Qc4 is a rare move and I don't think it's the best; although the idea to have e6 overprotected seems natural enough, the pin of the d-pawn is an unnecessary nuisance. I'd rather stick with the usual sontinuation 8...Qa5, but then again, who am I to judge?

9...Be6 is vastly superior over 9...Be7, because in case the latter is played, the king will have to keep defending the bishop.

10.Bg5 is an attempt to prove 8...Qc4 wrong; white wants to prevent 0-0-0, hoping to regain his pawn later, possibly together with some attack.

Since 11...Qb4 would fail miserably to 12.Nd5, the following moves are pretty much forced.

14.Nxf6+ is a very good idea: since all black's pieces are clustered together on the queenside, white launches an immediate and fast kingside attack.

20.Re5 is a bit of a show-off move: 20.Re4 would have been at least as effective, without the rook-sac. The ending should probably look something like 21.Qh5+ Kd7 22.Qf7+ Kd6 23.Nd2 with the idea 24.Ne4 A very nice finish!

As you can see I have the impression that Qc4 might be the decisive error. Anybody a suggestion to improve n the game?

By the way, how are things here? Are all the 'old' guys still here? Sneaky, acirce, suenteus po 147? Are the caissars still running? What happened during my absence?

Kind regards,

Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <nikolaas>
Using the "find similar games" feature Games Like Chigorin vs Alapin, 1885, I found Spielmann vs Breyer, 1914 where Breyer varied with 10...Qc5 and eventually won.

<What happened during my absence?> The usual - lots of interesting analysis and comments, lots of good fellowship, making fun of players' names, pompous debates about who's the greatest player of all time or famous chess scandals or politics, people posting 20-move long computer-generated continuations from quiet positions to figure out which side has the advantage...

As for the 'old' guys, I've seen them post but I'd better let them speak for themselves.

Premium Chessgames Member
  nikolaas: 10...Qc5 looks like a convincing improvement indeed. Quit remarkable that a natural move like Bc5 would be the decisive error. Even more remarkable is the fact that, of all moves, Qc5 is the best; it blocks the way for the bishop and after the earlier Qc4 looks like a loss of time.

That's the way it is, I guess :-)

Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <nikolaas>
Do you see a win after <12...Be7>?
Premium Chessgames Member
  nikolaas: I think something like 13.Be7 Net 14.Nd4 0-0-0 15.Qe1 followed by Ne6 would give excellent winning chances, indeed.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <nikolaas>
Black can try Steinitzian defense with 12...Be7 13. Bxe7 <Kxe7>, but White seems to be winning a pawn then after 14. Nxd4 Rhd8 15. Nxc6+ Qxc6 16. Qh5 h6 17. Qe5 Kf8 18. Nb5 Bd5 19. Rg4 f6 20. Qxc7 Qxc7 21. Nxc7 Rac8 22. Nxd5 Rxd5, also with good winning chances (a long line, but most of it looks pretty forcing).

In that sense, you might be right that move 10 is <the decisive error> and if so, it certainly is remarkable.

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