< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-21-11|| ||perfidious: The line 4.Bxf7+ Ke7 5.Bd5 takes a lot of the fun out of this for Black, as in the following game: Karpov vs Beliavsky, 1983.|
|Jun-21-11|| ||kellmano: <perfidious> Oh yeah how annoying that would be for the player of the black pieces. I quite often find myself on the white side of the Traxler and usually play 4.Nxf7. Might try out that line next time.|
|Jun-21-11|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: 5. Bxf7 Ke7 6. Bd5 makes sense if you want to avoid the jungle after 5. Nxf7 Bxf2.|
However, 6. Kf1 is regarded as strongest in the 5.Nxf7 line; New in Chess Yearbooks 63, 65-68 and 90 present surveys showing white is so much better, almost winning. 5. d4, 5. Bxf7 Ke7 6. Bb3 with 7. d3 and 8. Be3 are also good options.
Given white has a plethora of good choices, 4... Bc5 can only be recommended for blitz and or crazy people!
|Jun-21-11|| ||perfidious: <SimonWebbsTiger> Most interesting-this is a line I never tried with either colour, though I played with two clubmates in the 1990s of roughly 2000 Elo who duked it out in numerous games after 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bd5.|
|Jun-21-11|| ||sevenseaman: Interesting; White chose to emulate Nero in playing the fiddle when Rome was burning.|
POTD and this one are well-matched to debut together.
|Jun-21-11|| ||darksquare67: A little bit of a shame that Black didn't play 18...Bh3+ 19 Kxh3 Qh4+ 20 Kg2 Ne1+ 21 Kg1 Qd4# to finish it off.|
|Jun-21-11|| ||kevin86: A great game! The white king is in the castled square,but far from safe.|
|Jun-21-11|| ||hallu45: 6. Kxf2 is realy a disaster for white.
It should be prohibited if Trexler counterattack is played against 2 knight defense.
|Jun-21-11|| ||Llawdogg: Wow! What a wild ride!|
|Jun-21-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Wild ride, man ... a wild ride.|
|Jun-21-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Traxler / Wilkes Barre ...
a very good reason NOT to play Ng5, (for White).
|Jun-21-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: [Event "La Fere op 7th"]
[Site "La Fere"]
[White "Ninov, Nikolai"]
[Black "Marzolo, Cyril"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6. Kf1 Qe7 7. Nxh8 d5 8. exd5 Nd4 9. d6 cxd6 10. Kxf2 d5 11. d3 dxc4 12. h3 cxd3 13. cxd3 Bd7 14. Re1 O-O-O 15. Kg1 Rxh8 16. Be3 Qd6 17. Nd2 Bc6 18. Nc4 Qd5 19. Qd2 b6 20. Rac1 Kb7 21. Bxd4 Qxd4+ 22. Qf2 1-0
|Jun-21-11|| ||erniecohen: <darksquare67: A little bit of a shame that Black didn't play 18...Bh3+ 19 Kxh3 Qh4+ 20 Kg2 Ne1+ 21 Kg1 Qd4# to finish it off.>|
He didn't do that because white can play 19. ♔xf3 instead, and the mating position goes poof (though black still wins). The game continuation is the quickest kill.
|Jun-21-11|| ||erniecohen: <hallu45: 6. Kxf2 is realy a disaster for white. It should be prohibited if Trexler counterattack is played against 2 knight defense.>|
6. ♔xf2 might not be quite as strong as 6. ♔f1, but it's certainly playable. But he shouldn't do it unless he's ready to play 7. ♔e3 (breaking the rule of not attacking with your king before developing your minor pieces).
|Jun-21-11|| ||erniecohen: <LIFE Master AJ: Traxler / Wilkes Barre ... a very good reason NOT to play Ng5, (for White).>|
I'll take the white side of the Traxler every time. Of course we will have to switch to postal time control as part of the deal...
|Jun-21-11|| ||WhiteRook48: games like these are why I never play Ng5 as white in the opening|
|Jun-21-11|| ||morphyrulez: How about 5. 0-0 then lets say black replies with 5. ...d5. White can play 6. exd5 Nxe5 7. Nxf7 with a wild game. :)|
|Jun-21-11|| ||Lil Swine: there isn't a clear refutation to this line other than not taking on f7.
but aren't these people a little to amateur to be playing somewhat weak lines sn Ng5 to expect a pin on f7 at what i assume is an adult level tournament, although i cant be sure.|
|Jun-21-11|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: I had this sneaking suspicion I hadn't checked out my NIC Yearbooks properly and was right!|
NIC YB 63, 65-68 contain a major analysis/survey of the Traxler by Maarten de Zeeuw. Karel Traxler, btw, was a Czech priest -- trust a holy man to invent something this bloody!
Sure enough, a variety of suggestions popped up in the ever entertaining Forum.
Very notable is the extreme analytical mess which appears after 5. Nxf7, where refutations and rehabilitation appeared.
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6. Kf1 Qe7 7. Nxh8 d5 8. exd5 Nd4 9. d6 cxd6 10. Kxf2 d5 11.h3!?
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6. Kf1 Qe7 7. Nxh8 d5 8. exd5 Nd4 9. d6 Qxd6!? 10. Nf7 Qe7 has been suggested (cf. NIC YB 93)
Given the mass of messy lines in what is a rare line anyway, the practical Italian Game player - who has 4. Ng5 on the repertoire against the Two Knights - should consider the moves 5. d4, 5. Bxf7 Ke7 6. Bd5.
|Jun-22-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Anand,Viswanathan (2635) - Beliavsky,Alexander G (2640) [C57]
Linares 09th Linares (3), 1991
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bd5 Qe8 7.d3 d6 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Be3 Qg6 10.Nf3 Bxe3 11.fxe3 Qxg2 12.Rg1 Qh3 13.Rxg7+ Kd8 14.Rg3 Qh6 15.Qe2 Ng4 16.h3 Nf6 17.Nbd2 Ba6 18.0-0-0 Ke7 19.h4 Rag8 20.Rg5 Qf8 21.Nh2 Qf7 22.b3 h6 23.Rf5 Bc8 24.Rf3 Qh5 25.Rdf1 Rg3 26.d4 Rxf3 27.Nhxf3 Ng4 28.Qd3 Rf8 29.Qc3 Bd7 30.Kb2 exd4 31.exd4 Kd8 32.e5 Rf4 33.Re1 Qf5 34.Kc1 Kc8 35.a4 d5 36.Kb2 Be8 37.Re2 Qf8 38.a5 Kb7 39.a6+ Kxa6 40.e6 Kb7 41.Re1 Qd6 42.b4 Nf2 43.Nb3 Ne4 44.Nc5+ Qxc5 0-1
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
Shabalov,Alexander (2565) - Ivanov,Igor V (2475) [C57]
USA-ch Parsippany (4), 1996
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bd5 Rf8 7.0-0 d6 8.c3 Bg4 9.Qe1 h6 10.d4 Bb6 11.h3 hxg5 12.hxg4 Qd7 13.Na3 Qxg4 14.f3 Qh5 15.Nc4 g4 16.Nxb6 axb6 17.Qg3 exd4 18.Bxc6 bxc6 19.cxd4 gxf3 20.gxf3 g5 21.e5 ½-½
|Jun-22-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Big time GM's occasionally play this line as well.|
|Jun-22-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Hundreds of examples in the DB, too many to post them all here.|
|Jun-22-11|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Anand vs Beliavsky, 1991|
This is the game that I posted above - I should have known they would have such a BIG game here!
|Jun-23-11|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: @AJ
could you <please> stop "shouting, i.e. typing capitals. It's so annoying. Emphasis can be used with the < > symbols, which render words a lightish brown
|Jun-26-11|| ||zdigyigy: <darksquare67> nice eye.|
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