< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Mar-01-09|| ||just a kid: Got 40...Bxh4!,but not the rest.First!|
|Mar-01-09|| ||stacase: Bishop takes f4 is obvious since this is a puzzle, beyond that, I haven't looked in an effort to be first!|
|Mar-01-09|| ||stacase: Crap!|
|Mar-01-09|| ||dzechiel: Black to move (40...?). White is up a pawn. "Insane."|
This looks tough. First, some candidate moves, and my initial thinking...
White cannot play 41 fxg4 Qxf2+, and after 41 Rxg4 black can then play 41...Qxd3 to recover the rook (but beyond that I'm not certain).
With the not too subtle threat of 41...Qxe4.
Looking forward to playing ...e4+ in some future variation.
Wanting to play 41...Bf4+, and if 41 hxg5 hxg5 with threats of 42...Rg6+ and 43...Qh3.
Of the above moves, I think I like the last one
the most, but I'm really unsure and think that I'm just going to throw in the towel and see how this went down.
Time to check.
Nuts. Couldn't even find the key move in my candidates. I really should have at least seen that move. <sigh>
|Mar-01-09|| ||al wazir: I think I got this one. (Others may disagree.) I saw the threat of the pin after 40...Bxh4 41. Qxh4 (41. Rxh4? Qxd3) Rg5. So white has to move the , but where?|
I figured on 42. Qe1/Qf2, after which black's heavy artillery blasts the white into oblivion. I didn't look at 42. Qh3 Rh5 43. Rh4 (with or without the Zwischenzug Rd8+), but I think I would have found Qc2+ and Rg6+ (how else can black maintain the attack?), and the rest is pretty straightforward. Black has to come out of this at least an exchange up.
|Mar-01-09|| ||whitebeach: Like <dzechiel>, who is pretty good at this stuff, I never thought of the bishop sac. My move was 40 . . . Rg4. But like dzech says, after 41. Rxg4 Qxd3, it's not certain. Probably drawish.|
Philidor's Defense, here in the 21st century. What a great game chess is.
|Mar-01-09|| ||fouard: I saw 40...Bh4, and was pretty sure the Q couldn't recapture, but I didn't really try to work it all out.|
|Mar-01-09|| ||Crocomule: Bologan's tactics are unequaled.|
|Mar-01-09|| ||noendgame: noendgame: I was pretty certain that the bishop would take the pawn and the queen would recapture, but missed the simple rook move--I wanted to drive deeper into white's territory. It's always those little moves, so deadly once you see them, that are hard to find. |
|Mar-01-09|| ||JointheArmy: Saw 40. Bxh4, but missed 41. Rg5.|
|Mar-01-09|| ||Once: Black starts a pawn down, so we need to look for a quick attack. Otherwise, white will fire his b and c pawns down the board and all that will be left is a grisly defence.|
The white h4 looks to be the most promising target on the board. The move I would really like to play is 40...h7, with a plan of Rh6, Rh5, Rh6. But pawns don't move backwards and anyway this plan looks way too slow.
Then I noticed the pins in the middle of the board. The f3 pawn is pinned against the Qf2 and the Re4 is pinned against the Rd3. So we think about 40...Rg4. But like <Dzechiel> I can't find how to continue after 41. Rxg4 Qxd3.
So try another tack. 40...Bg5 intending Bf4+. Now if 41. hxg5, we play 41...Rxg5 followed by Rh5+.
Hmm - not what was played in the game. Time to fire up Fritz.
|Mar-01-09|| ||percyblakeney: Got the first two moves but the continuation was just too long to keep in the head, good puzzle and after all rather straight line for a Sunday.|
|Mar-01-09|| ||Once: Once mutters dark imprecations. As ever, Fritz keeps me honest. After a few seconds grubbing around with defensive rubbish, Fritzie finds 40...Bxh4 with an eval of around +2.6 and a line much like the game continuation.|
The Bg5 line fizzles out into this...
40... Bg5 41. hxg5 Rxg5 42. Nc5 Rcg6 43. Rh4 Qf6 44. Ne4 Rg2+ 45. Qxg2
Rxg2+ 46. Kxg2 Qxh4
click for larger view
Fritzie reckons this is equal, but I would not relish playing it as black.
|Mar-01-09|| ||zooter: I did get Bxh4 and Rg5 but thought the queen has to retreat all the way back....|
Did not see the long continuation (obviously) and also the Qh3 move...
|Mar-01-09|| ||goodevans: I didn’t get anywhere near solving this today and when I played through the solution I was pretty impressed. When I looked a bit deeper I noticed that it was unusually forcing for a Sunday. In fact, the whole thing looks mostly forced and I see only two variations worth considering.|
The first of these is 45 Kh1 and it took me a while to realise that this also fails to 46 ... Rg6.
The second is 49 Qf2. White will still lose his queen (to 49 ... Qh1+ 50 Ke2 Rg2) but it seems to offer a little more resistance than 49 Qh2 (I guess, though, not enough to save the game).
|Mar-01-09|| ||saaki: i think Rcf6 followed by Qf4 works equally well|
|Mar-01-09|| ||goodevans: <saaki: i think Rcf6 followed by Qf4 works equally well>|
I think I see where you're coming from, but 40 ... Rcf6 41 Nc3 Qf4+ 42 Rxf4 Rxf4 43 Kh3 seems to fend off the attack as far as I can see.
|Mar-01-09|| ||Samagonka: Long combination but well cut and clear for a Sunday. I didn't get it like every Sunday but I dare say it was rather very difficult than insane.|
|Mar-01-09|| ||morfishine: <Once> Thanks for running that out. I chose Bg5; at least it "draws" but like you, I would not want to play this as black|
|Mar-01-09|| ||goodevans: Further to my earlier post, 42 Qf2 is also worth considering.|
I think the winning line is 42 Qf2 Rh5+ 43 Kg1 Rg6+ 44 Kf1 Qh3+ after which white will soon be forced to trade Q for R and black still keeps a strong attack. But I have to admit that I haven't been able to see this through to a definite conclusion.
|Mar-01-09|| ||johnlspouge: Sunday (Insane):
O De la Riva Aguado vs Bologan, 2001 (40…?)
Black to play and win.
Material: B for N+P. White has connected passed Ps on the Q-side and wins if all pieces are off the board. The White Na4 is out of play, so Black should exploit any local superiority quickly. The White Kh2 has 1 legal move, h1. The Black Qf5 pins Pf2 to Qf2 and Re4 to Rd3. The Black Rg6 has an open file, and Rc6 can reload it. The Black Be7 requires activation but does attack Ph4, burdening Re4 and Qf2. The White Rd3 and Qf2 are loose. The Black Kg8 is open to checks on the back rank and a2-g8 diagonal, but is presently secure except for Rd3-d8+.
Candidates (40…): Bxh4, Rcf6, Rg4
Refusal of the sacrifice of Bh4 leaves White faces a strong mating attack against Kh2 with no material compensation. The Black Bh4 still protects d8, removing the zwischenzug Rd3-d8+ as a rescue for Rd3.
41.Qxh4 [Rxh4 Qxd3 wins for Black]
41...Rg5 (threatening 42...Rh5, pinning and winning Qh4, or 42...Rcg6 43..Rh5)
White can save Qh4 only by Qh4-f2 or Qh4-e1. To interpose Re4- h4, White needs to unpin Re4 or else, e.g.,
42.Qf2 Rh5+ 43.Rh5 Rxh5+ 44.Qxh5 Qxe3
and Black is up the exchange. White also needs to protect Pf3. Hence:
42.Rd8+ Kh7 43.Qf2 Rcg6, threatening
(A) 44…Rh5+ 45.Rh5 Qf4+ 46.Kh3 [else, drop Rh4] Rxh4+ 47.Qxh4 Qxf3+ then mate in 1.
44.Rh4 Rh5 (renewing Threat (A))
White has no feasible defense to Threat (A):
(1) 45.Rxh5 Qxh5 46.Qh4 Qxh4#
(2) 45.Kh1 Rxh4+ 46.Qxh4 Qxf3+ 47.Kh2 Qg2#
|Mar-01-09|| ||goodevans: <johnlspouge: ... White can save Qh4 only by Qh4-f2 or Qh4-e1 ... White needs to unpin Re4 ... Hence 42.Rd8+>|
Perhaps white's best plan is to accept that he will have to give up Q for R at some stage, try to do this with as little disadvantage as possible and then try to tough out the ending at a bit of a material disadvantage (see my earlier posts).
To this end 42 Rd8+ may not be such a good idea because it robs white of the chance to get his K off the h-file (e.g. 42 Rd8+ Kh2 43 Qf2 Rh5+ 44 Kg1 Qg5+ picking up the R).
My question is whether the plan outlined above is feasible or whether the material disadvantage is simply too great?
|Mar-01-09|| ||johnlspouge: < <al wazir>: [snip] I didn't look at 42. Qh3 Rh5 43. Rh4 (with or without the Zwischenzug Rd8+), but I think I would have found Qc2+ and Rg6+ [snip] >|
40…Bxh4 41.Qxh4 Rg5
White can leave Rd3 to be snatched, but it is a clear loss. IMHO, the critical variation is therefore not the game variation, but
42.Rd8+ Kh7 43.Qh3 Rh5
Toga gives as best play
44.Rh4 Qc2+ 45.Kg1 Rg6+ 46.Kf1 Qc1+ 47.Ke2 Rxh4
48.Qxh4 Rg2+ 49.Qxf2 Rxf2
The above variation 42.Rd8+ 43.Qh3 (which I missed) requires foresight of the long-distance move …Qc2+ as a resource for Black.
In my practice on http://chess.emrald.net, I found it relatively easy to train myself to foresee long-distance moves that change the direction of an attack. The key point is to make a preliminary scan of the <entire> board, before focusing on a particular theater of action.
|Mar-01-09|| ||johnlspouge: < <goodevans> wrote: <johnlspouge: ... White can save Qh4 only by Qh4-f2 or Qh4-e1 ... White needs to unpin Re4 ... Hence 42.Rd8+> [snip] My question is whether the plan outlined above is feasible or whether the material disadvantage is simply too great? >|
Hi, <goodevans>. The plan is infeasible.
We all have different aims in our posts, e.g., <dzechiel> has the very practical aim of trying to predict best play. Probably because I am trained as a mathematician, my aim is to prove that the key move in a puzzle leads to a win (or draw). To that end, I enumerate <superficially> feasible possibilities, showing that they lead to a loss. Given my time constraints, I have found it impractical to order the possibilities as to feasibility or best play (as <TheaN> does), although I am conscious of the importance of doing so.
|Mar-01-09|| ||goodevans: <johnlspouge: ... IMHO, the critical variation is therefore not the game variation, but|
42.Rd8+ Kh7 43.Qh3 Rh5>
Doesn't this amount to the same thing?
<Toga gives as best play
44.Rh4 Qc2+ 45.Kg1 Rg6+ 46.Kf1 Qc1+>
The first real deviation from the game.
<47.Ke2 Rxh4 48.Qxh4 Rg2+ 49.Qxf2>
Am I missing something here, or did you mean just 49 Qf2?
<49 ... Rxf2>
Isn't 49 ... Qc2+ better?
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