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Jose Raul Capablanca vs NN
"Copycat" (game of the day Jan-19-2011)
**Rd--()-, New York (1918), New York, NY USA
Four Knights Game: Italian Variation (C50)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 124 times; par: 20 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-02-15  KaosKid: Got it pretty easily. It's more of a Tuesday.
Dec-02-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: I can't find a source for this game. Was it a simul, rapid-transit or casual game?
Dec-02-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: I got this fairly quickly. Had to do a double check, though, to make sure that after W gives up the bishop the queen and knight can pull off the mate. Indeed they can.
Dec-02-15  Moszkowski012273: Actually 9.Qd2... looks quite incorrect.
Dec-02-15  ChessGGeek: Someone please explain to me what ChrisOwen has said. I find his posts interesting but I can never decipher them!
Dec-02-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <MissScarlett> Hopefully someone (Focus?) will reply...

If not, and when I can, I'll check ProQuest. Might be a bit of a challenge without a 2nd name though.

Dec-03-15  Moszkowski012273: I TOTALLY have to meet this <chrisowen> guy before I die....
Dec-03-15  TheFocus: <zanzibar> Sorry. I couldn't find it.
Dec-03-15  Eusebius: Is there a chance to see a live performance of <chrisowen> ?
Dec-03-15  JimNorCal: <eusebius>: " Is there a chance to see a live performance of <chrisowen>"

No. Also, I checked YouTube and didn't see any uploads. Chris? Are you up for an extended selfie?

My guess is that he uses a purposely mal-configured speech recognition app.

Dec-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <Also, I checked YouTube and didn't see any uploads..>

Chris 'One Joke' Owen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQj...

Dec-03-15  JimNorCal: Sure, that could be him! Chris, do you do any chicken impressions?
Dec-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: My thought is that mere mortals aren't intended to understand...

e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5g... (still trying to figure that one out)

* * * * *

<MissS> I checked the ProQuest db, and couldn't find the game mentioned explicitly.

Perhaps one of the contemporaneous chess periodicals carried it?

It is a good question - where did the score (movelist) for this game come from?

Dec-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: What is the ProQuest DB? Why is it especially relevant to finding the requested info?
Dec-03-15  TheFocus: <My guess is that he uses a purposely mal-configured speech recognition app.>

Or he is translating Swahili into Klingon, and then back to English.

Dec-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <MS> It's the most extensive collection of Historical Newspapers I have access to at my local public library.

It's relevant since the game was played in the US. What other original sources would you suggest using?

(Either contemporaneous chess articles in local newspapers or chess periodicals are my suggestions for primary sources)

Dec-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: FWIW <Phony> is familiar with ProQuest. You can google it for particulars.
Dec-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi,

How about this game never happened but was Capa giving a lecture on a previous game he played and wanted to show what was possible if someone carried on copying moves.

A game not on here is:

J. Capablanca - N. Grigoriev Moscow, 1914. Which reached this position. Capablanca played 8.c3.


click for larger view

http://www.365chess.com/game.php?gi...

J. Capablanca - N. Grigoriev, Moscow, 1914

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bc4 Bc5 5.d3 d6 6.Bg5 Bg4 7.Nd5 Nd4 8.c3 Bxf3 9.gxf3 Ne6 10.Bxf6 gxf6 11.b4 Bb6 12.Nxb6 axb6 13.Bxe6 fxe6 14.Rg1 Qe7 15.Qb3 Kd7 16.0-0-0 Rag8 17.Rg3 Rg6 18.Rdg1 Qg7 19.Kb1 Qh6 20.Qd1 b5 21.d4 Qxh2 22.Qf1 Rxg3 23.Rxg3 Kc6 24.Rh3 Qf4 25.Qd3 Rg8 26.d5+ Kb6 27.Qe3+ Qxe3 28.fxe3 exd5 29.exd5 e4 30.fxe4 Rg4 31.Kc2 Rxe4 32.Kd3 Re7 33.e4 Rf7 34.c4 Rg7 35.Rh6 Rf7 36.c5+ Ka7 37.Ke3 Kb8 38.Kf4 Kc8 39.Kf5 Kd7 40.Rxf6 Rxf6+ 41.Kxf6 c6 42.cxd6 cxd5 43.e5 d4 44.e6+ Kxd6 45.e7 1-0

Then there is this game

V Fernandez Coria vs Capablanca, 1914

This game has this position:


click for larger view

(Bishops on b4 and b5) but as a poster on page one on this thread notes a joke game gives Bb5 and Bb4. The Knights go to d5 and d4 then capture both Bishops and move back to d5 d4. The final position is this.


click for larger view

Which is the final position as the Capa game minus the King's Bishops.

The lack of providence plus the fact in this pages game the move 9.Qd2 is not a Capablanca move even in a casual/simul game. Black gets a comfortable game with 9...Nxf3+ 10.gxf3 Bxf3.

White cannot play 11.Nxf6 gxf6 12.Bh6 as 11...Qc8 mates White.

He would have played 9.c3 very similar to the move 8.c3 he played in Grigoriev game given above.

It is possible he demoed this game, possibly in New York in 1918, someone took down the score and it got published. Or it was published as analyse to the Grigoriev game in his own magazine which was active in 1914 and someone ran with it.

Good luck trying to trace the genuine source, don't give up but it has a funny feel about it.

Dec-04-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: Nice post <Sally>, thanks. And yes, that thought did cross my mind.
Dec-04-15  Moszkowski012273: 8.c3... IS much better.
Dec-04-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Zanzibar,

As Miss Scarlett once observed (and I quote).

"You're old enough and ugly enough not to trust anything in books." Unquote.

I transferred this to the internet a long time ago.

I do hope someone somewhere unearths the facts.

Feb-28-16  ChessYouGood: Love how mercilessly Capa crushes this joker
Feb-28-16  RookFile: I think Capa did it with a smile.
Feb-28-16  laskereshevsky: well... at least the black could proudly say: "...Once, I played for 10 moves like Capablanca..."
Jun-11-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  jith1207: Then I was instantly sent back to the pits of hell.
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