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Wiesel vs Weigel
cr (1923)
Scandinavian Defense: Main Lines (B01)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Black will lose either rook or queen,after the text,the queen will fall.
Dec-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  doubledrooks: I saw 8. Nd5, but after 8...Qc5 9. d4 Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Kf1 O-O-O it seemed to me that Black could fight on.

So I went with 9. Nxc7+ Kd8 10. Bxc6 Kxc7 11. Bxb7 Qe5+ 12. Qe4, winning two pawns.

Dec-18-12  mworld: <gofer> thank you for your post, I appreciate the thought provoking comments although I don't know the answer.
Dec-18-12  M.Hassan: "Easy"
White to play 8.?
Equal.

8.Nd5
<if...Qxb5 9.Nxc7+ and Queen is lost>

8...........Qa5 guarding square c7
9.b5
Queen will have no square to escape and has to capture the Bishop 9...........Qxb5
10.Nc7+ Kd8
11.Nxb5
will be like the above case.

Dec-18-12  James D Flynn: Material is equal and neither side has completed its development, however, White to move has the immediate threat 8.Nd5 attacking the Black Q and the pawn on c7. 8.Nd5 Qc5(if Qa5 9.b4 wins the Q for a B) 9.d4 Qxc2 10.Nxc7+ Kd7 11.Bf4 Rd8(if Rb8 12.Rd1+ Kc8 13.Ne6 fxe6 14.Qe3 Qf5 15.g4 Qg6 16.Qe5 and Black can only postpone the mate on c7 for a move by sacrificing the Q by 16.Qe4+ Qxe4) 12.Rc1 Qxb2 13.Bxc3+ bxc6 14.Qxc6+ Kc8 15.Na6#
Dec-18-12  erniecohen: Exactly why is this game in the DB?
Dec-18-12  MountainMatt: <PawnSac: Easy one..
White Wiesels (weasles) out a win with Nd5 Qa5 b4! and black can't Weigel (wiggle) his queen out of danger! (but Qc5 is better)>

You took the wiggly, weasley words right outta my mouth.

Dec-18-12  LIFE Master AJ: <<Dec-18-12 TheoNov: <LMAJ, whiteshark, Bartimaeus> After 8. .. Qc5, both 9. b4/d4 are answered by 9. .. Qd6. The straightforward 9. Nxc7+ is correct.>>

Not to be mean, but UR are simply wrong. (Look at it with an engine ...)

Dec-18-12  LIFE Master AJ: 9.NxP/c7+??, QxN
Dec-18-12  LIFE Master AJ: And the Queen cannot get from a5 to d6 ... not in one move.
Dec-18-12  Kikoman: 1. <Nd5!> Qc5 (Qa5?? 2. b4 and the Black's Queen is trap, Qd4? 2. Bxc6+ bxc6 3. Nxc7+ and White winning the exchange and gains a mere of pawn) 2. d4! Qd6 (Qxc2/Qxd4 3. Nxc7+) 3. Bf4 and that's it!

Kihx3

Dec-18-12  stst: The point is to let Nxc7 forking the R (or, Q too,depending on how B's Q moves.) B can only avoid this is to keep it's Q on the a5-d8 diag, thus: 8.Nd5 Qa5
Now W can disturb this by
9.b4, and B can only take it, or takes the Bishop to save herself, any way W goes as planned: 10.Nxc7+ forks the R.
Dec-18-12  stst: analyses without a sight, it turns out exactly as "planned." ~ Monday / Tuesday material, goodee...
Dec-18-12  bachbeet: I saw Nd5 and also b4. But I thought b4 wouldn't get much because I thought the black knight could simply take it. I forgot about the bishop pin.
Dec-18-12  thegoldenband: Several people have listed the line 8. Nd5 Qc5 9. d4 Qd6 10. Bf4 e5 as if it's good for Black, but 11. Bxe5 looks completely crushing to me -- have folks been overlooking the pin on the c6-knight? And surely 10...Qe6+ is better, with the idea of 11...O-O-O?
Dec-18-12  Helloween: I got 8.Nd5 Qc5 9.Nxc7+ Kd8 10.Bxc6 Kxc7 11.Bxb7 Qe5+ 12.Qe4 Qxe4+ 13.Bxe4 Rd8, a pair of Bishops and 2 extra QS pawns- a lost cause, but certainly worth playing on for players of this caliber...but then I realized 8...Qc5 9.d4! Qd6 10.Bf4 Qe6+ 11.Ne3! and White's position(threatening d5) is absolutely crushing. There was certainly more to this puzzle than the average Tuesday!!
Dec-18-12  Helloween: p.s: To those who said "easy one" and didn't work out the complications, shame on you for your shortsightedness.
Dec-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: I wish I saw the knight being pinned.
Dec-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: Weasel vs. Wiggle?
Dec-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: I picked Nf6+ followed by Bxc6+ instead
Dec-19-12  TheoNov: < LIFE Master AJ: <<Dec-18-12 TheoNov: <LMAJ, whiteshark, Bartimaeus> After 8. .. Qc5, both 9. b4/d4 are answered by 9. .. Qd6. The straightforward 9. Nxc7+ is correct.>> Not to be mean, but UR are simply wrong. (Look at it with an engine ...)>

I did, of course. Naturally, after the text <8...Qa5>, b4 wins the Q, as we all understand. If you read my post more carefully, I said <After 8...Qc5>, 9.b4 and 9.d4 are both suboptimal moves (although 9.d4 is not bad), and 9. Nxc7+ is best.

<LIFE Master AJ: 9.NxP/c7+??, QxN >

<LIFE Master AJ: And the Queen cannot get from a5 to d6 ... not in one move.>

Again, misunderstandings based on the foregoing.

Dec-19-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: I really feel a bit sheepish about it... :D
Dec-19-12  thegoldenband: <TheoNov>, could you elaborate on your assessment of 9. d4? Specifically, how do you evaluate <Helloween>'s line 8...Qc5 9. d4! Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Ne3, which looks quite good for White, vs. your best line after 9. Nxc7?
Dec-19-12  TheoNov: < thegoldenband: how do you evaluate <Helloween>'s line 8...Qc5 9. d4! Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Ne3, which looks quite good for White, vs. your best line after 9. Nxc7? >

I agree that <Helloween>'s 9.d4 is winning for White, but 9.Nxc7 is even more convincing. Splitting hairs perhaps.

My best lines are after 8. .. Qc5 are:

<For 9. Nxc7+>

9. .. Kd8 and then 10. d4! (now this move is even more effective)

A) 10. .. Qxd4 11. Bf4 e5 12. Rd1 Qxd1+ 13. Kxd1 Kxc7 14. Bxc6 Rd8+ 15. Kc1 bxc6 16. Bxe5+ Kb6 17. Qb3+ Ka6 18. Re1 Nf6 19. Bxf6 gxf6 20. Re4 Bh6+ 21. f4


click for larger view

B) 10. ..Nxd4 11. Qxb7 Nxb5 12. Nxb5 Qc8 13. Qd5+ Ke8 14. Bf4 e6 15. Qxa8


click for larger view

<For the immediate 9. d4>

9. .. Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Ne3
Qf6 12. O-O-O (12. Nd5 Qe6+) 12. .. O-O-O 13. Ng4 Qf5 14. Bxc6 bxc6 15. Ne5 Rd6 16. g4 Qf6 17. g5 Qe6 18. Qa3 Kb7 19. Rd3 Rd5 20. Qa4


click for larger view

Also overwhelmingly winning, but I prefer the material surplus that the 9.Nxc7 lines offer. That's all.

Cheers,
TN

Mar-21-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: As to <erniecohen>'s remarks, the old acronym WYSIWIG may be a propos, given the opponents' names: what you see is what you get.
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