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Kotsiev vs W Ivanov
USSR (1976)
Formation: King's Indian Attack (A07)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-03-06  ReikiMaster: <<al wazir> <Chesnutt>'s post (1st page of Kibitzing) shows the same win of a piece. You don't have to read all moves.> Correct. That game lasting over 40 moves does not prove any uncertainty about who was going to win. In fact after 9...Nd6 10.Bxb7 Nxb7 11.Qf3! 0-0 12.Qxb7 black had practically no compensation for the piece he lost.
Jan-03-06  Hudson Hawk: <ReikiMaster> <al wazir> et al. It bears noting that in the full game posted in which black resigned that white captured with the knight, not the pawn in that game. So the combination did not win him a piece, it only got him back to even with not much in the way of compensation.
Jan-03-06  Hudson Hawk: <benveniste> I'm not so sure that saves much. If White immediately takes the d7 knight Black is still faced with the same problems.
Jan-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: If you're looking for continuations in which black "only" loses a piece, why not 9...Nxf2?
Jan-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: The true paradox of puzzle solving is that if a person can solve it,to him/her it is "easy"---if he/she can't,it is hard.

The puzzle here is very easy but one has to know what he/she is solving.

White overworks black's pieces and picks up one or two.

Jan-03-06  Shams: how is that paradoxical?
Jan-03-06  jackpawn: I got it, but only after several minutes. Normally I can do Tuesdays in a few seconds. Another slap to my ego (sigh) . . .
Jan-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: <shama> because the defining the puzzle as "hard" or "easy" is totally the opinion of the person doing the analysis. The definition is totally meaningless.
Jan-03-06  Shams: well, maybe I'm just in a mood to be pedantic but I think that the word "paradoxical" is what become meaningless, when you use it to apply to any skill that some people are better at than others. Is speaking French paradoxical? What about the decathlon? Fixing a car engine? Hard and easy are relative terms, not meaningless ones. A paradox is an irreducible contradiction. Right?
Jan-03-06  TopaLove: I could solve this puzzle cause I remembered of a puzzle we had a long time ago. It was Fischer playing as white, then after a combination the queen was attacking a piece in the corner and threatining checkmate. IŽll try to find the game.

Ah, and of coarse, it was not a tuesday puzzle. I think it was a thrusday or friday.

Jan-03-06  Sami Jr: I don't understand why black will be down a major (non pawn) piece, particularly in the scenario mentioned by <al wazir> and others: 9. Ne5 Nd6 10. Bxb7 Nxb7 11. Qf3... If black responds with Qd5, then the threat of mate to black and threat on his N on b7 is gone. White can 12. Qxf7 Kd8. White can continue to check by moving Nd2 but so far white is only up a pawn. Am I missing something here? Please let me know what I may have overlooked.
Jan-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  jahhaj: <Sami Jr> Black can save his piece that way but it's pretty miserable. After 13.Qxg7 Black is two pawns down, can't castle, going to lose the h pawn soon. Enough to resign.

Another W Ivanov minature, W Ivanov vs P Martynov, 1973

Jan-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <Sami Jr:> In the game <Chesnutt> posted black opted not to play 11...Qd5. I assume that he disliked 12. Qxf7 Kd8 13. Qxg7. Two pawns down, black's prospects in an endgame are bleak. But that's only my conjecture.
Jan-03-06  aginis: <9. Ne5 Nd6 10. Bxb7 Nxb7 11.Qf3 Qd5?? 12.Qxf7+ Kd8 > 13.Qxg7 Re8 (13...Rf8 14.Nb3 and the threat of 15.Bg5 is really strong) 13...Nb3 (two pawns plus a strong positional advantage worth at least another pawn if not two.)
Jan-03-06  aginis: not all at once now
Jan-03-06  morphyvsfischer: Easy enough if you know the themes of the fianchetto. The undefended a8 rook, b7 bishop, and e4 knight, plus a single piece staring them all down (g2 bishop) makes you stare at the knight to death. 4 squares for the knight: e1, h4, g5, and e5. h4 and e1 are nothings, and g5 hangs a piece, so 9 Ne5! 10 seconds, but the reason this was easy was because:

A. ...Nxe4! tricks with a fianchettoed g7 bishop in the Sicilan happen for me all the time. B. Q-side fianchettoes against the KIA suck (not enough play for Black, K-side suicidal, center locked up after e5, Q-side Black loses a tempo and makes it hit granite.

Jan-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: I just now said tomyself - Ne5 loks like it wins! Lol. I could see that the Black knight is pinned and there is threat of check on h5.

And there is the line 1. Ne5 Nxd2 2. Bxb7 Nef1 3. Qf3 0-0 4. Bxa1

The trouble is with thhese positions is I keep losing count of how many pieces etc each side has...

Jan-03-06  brainzugzwang: <dac1990: If 9...f5. 10.Bxe4 Bxe4 (or fxe4) 11.Qh5+!> OK, I'm not near an actual board right now, but I think I'd play 10...Bxe4 11.Qh5 O-O to stop the mate threat. 12.Nxe4 fxe4 13.Bh6 doesn't seem to threaten anything other than making the kingside really ugly, so what does White do here?
Jan-03-06  brainzugzwang: BTW, from the final position, has anyone tried 9...Qd4, threatening to simply take off the Ne5 while adding another protector to the Ne4?
Jan-03-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: I was wondering if Black could try 9...♘c3 10.bxc3 ♗xg2 11.♔xg2 ♕d5+ but then saw 12.♕f3. Is <brainzugzwang>'s suggestion of 9...♕d4 a possible salvation?
Jan-03-06  Toastman: 9...Qd4 10.Nxe4 Qxe5 11.Nf6+ anything 12. Bxb7 and the A8 rook is stuck so white looses 2 knights and probably the bishop in the continuation for a knight a bishop and a rook at least. Other moves on 10... are even worse, Qxe4 looses the queen for the knight and the bishop, Qxd1 looses the rook.
Jan-04-06  brainzugzwang: <Toastman> Well, once I got home and was able to set this up on the board, I saw 10...Qxe5 didn't work - just miscounted the pieces. But after 10...Qxd1 11.Nd6(or f6)+ BxN 12.Bxb7 Qxf1 13.Kxf1 Bxe5 14.Bxa8 and Black has a pawn for the exchange. What I am missing here?
Jan-04-06  JohnBoy: <brain> - Why get fancy? After 9...Qd4 10.Nxe4 Qxd1 11.Rxd1 white is up a piece with a great position...
Jan-04-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <brainzugzwang: What I am missing here?>

9...Qd4 10. Nxe4 Qxd1 11. Rxd1. White is a piece up.

Jan-04-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: White's 9. Ne5! initiates a decisive discovered attack. Some analysis with Fritz 8 follows:

<1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 b6 3. Bg2 Bb7 4. O-O e6 5. d3 d5 6. Nbd2 Be7 7. e4 dxe4 8. dxe4 Nxe4 9. Ne5> 1-0 and White resigned in lieu of 9...f5 (9... Nc3 10. bxc3 Bxg2 11. Kxg2 Qd5+ 12. Ndf3 f6 13. Qxd5 exd5 14. Nd3 ) (9... Nd6 10. Bxb7 Nxb7 11. Qf3 ) (9... Nd7 10. Nxd7 Nxf2 11. Rxf2 Bxg2 12. Nxb6 axb6 13. Kxg2 ) (9... Nxd2 10. Bxb7 ) 10. Bxe4 fxe4 (10... Bxe4 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Nxg6 hxg6 13. Qxh8+ Kd7 14. Qd4+ Ke8 15. Qg7 ) 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Nxg6 hxg6 13. Qxh8+ Kd7 14. Qh3 (+2.22 @ 15 depth).

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