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Napoleon Bonaparte vs Henri Gatien Bertrand
St. Helena (1820), St Helena
Scotch Game: Napoleon Gambit (C44)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Who poisoned Napoleon? I think the British were his 'minders' on Elbe, could it have been them?
Aug-16-10  redmaninaustin: a man, a plan, a canal: panama
Aug-19-10  Lil Swine: if someone beat him he'd probably kill them on the spot
Nov-25-10  estebansponton: pas mal Napoleón. N'est ce pas???
May-03-11  IRONCASTLEVINAY: General was blindfold
Nov-25-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Wow. He's pretty good.
Aug-15-12  Pirandus: Fake?
Aug-15-12  thomastonk: Here one can find some facts on Napoleon and Chess and on this game in particular: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/....
Dec-13-13  RedShield: <You and whose army!?>
May-29-15  siegbert: It is a nice combination which finishes the game.
May-29-15  Zonszein: Napoleon is overrated
As many of these so called "geniuses"
May-29-15  Granny O Doul: The game title makes no sense. He seems to have been quite able long after leavig Elba.
Jun-10-15  siegbert: its a pun!!
Jun-10-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Petrosianic: No, no, no' a pun. What's that thing what spells the same, backwards and forwards?
Jun-10-15  A.T PhoneHome: Palindrome?
Jun-10-15  paavoh: @Petrosianic: That is a palindrome, I believe.

Note added later: earlier pages contain discussion on this: this is a reversal, a form of palindrome.

Jun-10-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Petrosianic: It's no' a palindrome, the palindrome of Bolton would be Notlob!

(Sorry, nobody picked up on the Python reference so I had to finish it myself.)

Jun-10-15  paavoh: Bolton - Notlob: why, that's a semordnilap if I ever saw one :-)
Jun-17-15  morphyesque: Post script to my post of March 12 2010, the games which were filmed were all based on Irving Chernev's 1954 book "The 1000 Best Short Games of Chess".Curiously there was a filming error of "There's Many a Slip" which portrays Andrews vs Janssens London 1864.In Chernev's book the correct score is shown to include the vital 10.bb5+.I love Chernev's pithy comment introducing each game.
Jan-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: Looks like Edward Winter will have to edit his page on Napoleon.

Thanks to <jnpope> and the O'Keefe project I've found another 1862 reference to this game (perhaps the earliest know thus far?), in G.B. Fraser's 2nd article in the <Dundee Courier and Argus>:

http://www.chessarch.com/excavation...

Fraser claims the game was play in St. Helena, about 1817.

I don't believe Winter makes any mention of this reference.

Jan-16-16  thomastonk: <zanzibar: perhaps the earliest know thus far?> No.

Winter quoted from BCM 1900, pages 53-56 and corrected a date for a source as follows: "This will be found reprinted in Waifs and Strays, the second edition of which does not give the date and place of first appearance of the sketch, but a footnote indicates that this must have been the American Chess Monthly, in which case the date cannot have been earlier than 1857 <[July, 1860, in fact]>."

That means, he knew https://books.google.de/books?id=eC... .

Jan-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: OK, H.J.R. Murray’s account should be corrected.
But certainly Winter could have written a more clear account of which source was first (with the explicit quoting of material given in the original source you link, and not via this circuitous route:

BCM Social Chess (1900) unnamed reviews refers:

"Waifs and Strays" (2e unknown date) which contains a footnote referring to

ACM 1857

But no explicit citation, just a statement about the earliest it could <possibly> have been. I assume the 1857 used is the start of publication? And the parenthetical, [July, 1860, in fact] was introduced by Winter?

Why didn't Winter spell it out, instead of burying the primary source in an obscure parenthetical to an obscure footnote.

BTW - the BCM review contains this:

<To conclude, the game may very well have been actually played – by someone; but we suspect that the military rank of the winner was considerably below that of a general officer.’>

Jan-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: I just went through all the kibitzing, and no one has previously identified the source of this game, as played by Napoleon. So, our exchange documents, to the best of our knowledge today (I suppose), the sourcing of this game as attributed to Napoleon.

It's nice to spell it out explicitly.

Thanks for the ACM ref.

https://books.google.de/books?id=eC...

Please see this comment, and the posts it references, for the possible actual source of the game itself, with proper attributions:

Napoleon Bonaparte vs General Bertrand, 1820 (kibitz #108)

As I've said, <CG> kibitzing can be a good source of information - at less for suggesting avenues of investigation.

Jul-12-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: This game has to be phony. 13...a5 makes no sense. Black could have defended with 13...Qxe5.
Jul-12-16  beatgiant: Napoleon would never have played like this. 2. Nf3? <When you set out to take Vienna, take Vienna> indicates <2. Nc3> (a Vienna game).
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