Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Napoleon Bonaparte vs Henri Gatien Bertrand
St. Helena (1820) (probably analysis), St Helena
Scotch Game: Napoleon Gambit (C44)  ·  1-0


explore this opening
find similar games 2 more games of Napoleon Bonaparte
sac: 11.fxe5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: If you do not want to read posts by a certain member, put them on your ignore list.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-13-10  HeMateMe: Who poisoned Napoleon? I think the British were his 'minders' on Elbe, could it have been them?
Aug-16-10  redmaninaustin: a man, a plan, a canal: panama
Aug-19-10  Lil Swine: if someone beat him he'd probably kill them on the spot
Nov-25-10  estebansponton: pas mal Napoleón. N'est ce pas???
May-03-11  IRONCASTLEVINAY: General was blindfold
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Wow. He's pretty good.
Aug-15-12  Pirandus: Fake?
Aug-15-12  thomastonk: Here one can find some facts on Napoleon and Chess and on this game in particular:
Dec-13-13  RedShield: <You and whose army!?>
May-29-15  siegbert: It is a nice combination which finishes the game.
May-29-15  Zonszein: Napoleon is overrated
As many of these so called "geniuses"
May-29-15  Granny O Doul: The game title makes no sense. He seems to have been quite able long after leavig Elba.
Jun-10-15  siegbert: its a pun!!
Jun-10-15  Petrosianic: No, no, no' a pun. What's that thing what spells the same, backwards and forwards?
Jun-10-15  A.T PhoneHome: Palindrome?
Jun-10-15  paavoh: @Petrosianic: That is a palindrome, I believe.

Note added later: earlier pages contain discussion on this: this is a reversal, a form of palindrome.

Jun-10-15  Petrosianic: It's no' a palindrome, the palindrome of Bolton would be Notlob!

(Sorry, nobody picked up on the Python reference so I had to finish it myself.)

Jun-10-15  paavoh: Bolton - Notlob: why, that's a semordnilap if I ever saw one :-)
Jun-17-15  morphyesque: Post script to my post of March 12 2010, the games which were filmed were all based on Irving Chernev's 1954 book "The 1000 Best Short Games of Chess".Curiously there was a filming error of "There's Many a Slip" which portrays Andrews vs Janssens London 1864.In Chernev's book the correct score is shown to include the vital 10.bb5+.I love Chernev's pithy comment introducing each game.
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: Looks like Edward Winter will have to edit his page on Napoleon.

Thanks to <jnpope> and the O'Keefe project I've found another 1862 reference to this game (perhaps the earliest know thus far?), in G.B. Fraser's 2nd article in the <Dundee Courier and Argus>:

Fraser claims the game was play in St. Helena, about 1817.

I don't believe Winter makes any mention of this reference.

Jan-16-16  thomastonk: <zanzibar: perhaps the earliest know thus far?> No.

Winter quoted from BCM 1900, pages 53-56 and corrected a date for a source as follows: "This will be found reprinted in Waifs and Strays, the second edition of which does not give the date and place of first appearance of the sketch, but a footnote indicates that this must have been the American Chess Monthly, in which case the date cannot have been earlier than 1857 <[July, 1860, in fact]>."

That means, he knew .

Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: OK, H.J.R. Murray’s account should be corrected.
But certainly Winter could have written a more clear account of which source was first (with the explicit quoting of material given in the original source you link, and not via this circuitous route:

BCM Social Chess (1900) unnamed reviews refers:

"Waifs and Strays" (2e unknown date) which contains a footnote referring to

ACM 1857

But no explicit citation, just a statement about the earliest it could <possibly> have been. I assume the 1857 used is the start of publication? And the parenthetical, [July, 1860, in fact] was introduced by Winter?

Why didn't Winter spell it out, instead of burying the primary source in an obscure parenthetical to an obscure footnote.

BTW - the BCM review contains this:

<To conclude, the game may very well have been actually played – by someone; but we suspect that the military rank of the winner was considerably below that of a general officer.’>

Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: I just went through all the kibitzing, and no one has previously identified the source of this game, as played by Napoleon. So, our exchange documents, to the best of our knowledge today (I suppose), the sourcing of this game as attributed to Napoleon.

It's nice to spell it out explicitly.

Thanks for the ACM ref.

Please see this comment, and the posts it references, for the possible actual source of the game itself, with proper attributions:

Napoleon Bonaparte vs General Bertrand, 1820 (kibitz #108)

As I've said, <CG> kibitzing can be a good source of information - at less for suggesting avenues of investigation.

Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: This game has to be phony. 13...a5 makes no sense. Black could have defended with 13...Qxe5.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: Napoleon would never have played like this. 2. Nf3? <When you set out to take Vienna, take Vienna> indicates <2. Nc3> (a Vienna game).
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 7)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: ANALYSIS (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
from zz29_Remember 1838 (Ra8+Bc8 untouched) by whiteshark
Short n Quick 2
by jungol
11...bxa1=Q (???)
from Promotion: Middle Game (pre-1900) by Penguincw
Scotch, Napoleon G (C44) 1-0 Film name: "The Last Victory"
from Spearheads (Batteries w/a Q) Prod Fredthebear by fredthebear
Chessman1's favorite games 1
by Chessman1
Mighty Queen Mate (Example #2) 21.Qf8# 1-0 (???)
from Checkmate Patterns Compiled by Penguincw by fredthebear
lazintata's misc
by lazintata
Scotch Game: Napoleon Gambit (C44) 1-0 "The Last Victory" film
from Attacks a2/a7, b2/b7 and c2/c7 ECO C by FTB by Del ToRo
by shakespeare
A chess battle!
from Fascinating Games by clifton
fmonteiro's favorite games
by fmonteiro
18 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection IV by wwall
Two Generals on an Island
from Famous people's games by Diggitydawg
Beautiful games!!!
by Tamerlan
Mighty Queen Mate (Example #2) 21.Qf8# 1-0 (???)
from Checkmate: Checkmate Patterns by Penguincw
Astounding tactics from the Frenchman....
from Collections in Idleness 3 by Trigonometrist

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2018, Chessgames Services LLC