< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·
|Jan-15-05|| ||ice lemon tea: i wonder why white didn't take the black rook...it would be a lot much easier to win instead... |
|Jan-15-05|| ||patzer2: My solution was 17. Bd5! After 17. Bd5! Qh3 18. Nxc8! Rxc8 19. Qd3! f3 (19...Qxd3 20. Nxf3 Nd8 21. Bxf4 )
20. Rg1 Rd8 21. Rg3 Black must give up decisive material for a winning White advantage. |
|Jan-15-05|| ||chopbox: Thanks, VanGogh228, for your message.
Your reply in the 21...Kh8 line (22.Qf7) is an improvement to my idea of 22.Qxe8 as it shortens checkmate in that line by one move.
Your second point, giving your line after 21...g6, also demonstrates a pretty much forced checkmate for White. (By the way, in this line, checkmate appears on move 34, but you could reduce that by a move or two if White takes the knight on f8 on move 26 and the bishop on move 27.)
In short, then, in all these lines, everything's just boom, boom, boom, with checkmate within a few forced moves. In the game as played, Black resigns before his 29th move, as he is down some material, but the checkmate which would have ended this game had it continued is not within sight.
So, and this is my main point, it still seems to me that White should have played 21.Bc2+, instead of 21.Qxc8 as he did.
|Jan-15-05|| ||patzer2: An expanded analysis of 17. h5! puzzle solution, verified and checked with Fritz 8, follows:|
17. h5! xh1+
[(A) 17...g6 18. N7xg6+ Kg8 19. Nxf8 Qxh1+ 20. Ke2 Qe4+ 21. Kd2 N8g7 22. Qf7+ Kh8 23. Bxe6 Bxe6 24. Nxe6 Nxe6 25. Qxe6 Qg2 26. Qf6+ Kg8 27. Qf7+ Kh8 28. Ke2 Qe4+ 29. Be3 Qc2+ 30. Kf3 Qxb2 31. Qf6+ Kg8 32. Rg1#]
[(B) 17...Qe4+ 18. Kd2 g5 (18...Nf6 19. N5g6+ Qxg6 20. Nxg6+ ; 18...h6 Bd5 ) 19. Bc2 trapping the Queen]
[(C) 17...Nf6 18. N5g6+ Qxg6 19. Nxg6+ Kg8 20. Ne7+ winning the Queen]
[(D) 17...h6 18. Bd5 Nf6 19. N5g6+ Kh7 20. Qf5 (20. Bxg2 Nxh5 21. Be4 Rf6 22. Nxf4+ Kh8 23. Nxh5 ; 20. Nxf8+ Nxf8 21. Bxg2 Nxh5 22. Be4+ g6 23. Nxc8 Rxc8 24. Bxb7 ) 20...Qg4 21. Nxf8+ Kh8 22. Nfg6+ Kh7 23. Qc2! Qg5 24. h4 Qh5 25. Nxf4+ Kh8 26. Nxh5 winning the Queen and more]
[(E) 17...g5 18. Bd5 f3 19. Qh6! Qxh1+ 20. Kd2 Rf6 21. N5g6+ Rxg6 22. Nxg6+ Kg8 23. Qf8#]
17. h5! xh1+ 18. d2
[(F) not 18. Ke2? Nxd4 19. cxd4 Qe4+ 20. Kf1 (20. Kd1?? Bg4+! ; 20. Kd2?? Qxd4+ ; 20. Be3 Bf5 =) 20...Qh1+ 21. Ke2 Qe4+ 22. Kf1 Qh1+ 23. Ke2 = with a draw by threefold repetition]
17. h5! xh1+ 18. d2 h6
[(g) 18...Qe4 (18...Qg1 and 18...Qg2 are also met by) 19. N5g6+ Qxg6 20. Nxg6+ Kg8 21. Ne7+ and White wins easily]
17. h5! xh1+ 18. d2 h6 19. 5g6+ h7 20. xf8+ is the winning game continuation.
[(h) a stronger winning alternative is 20. Bxe6! Bxe6 21. Nxf8+ Kh8 22. Qg6 Bg8 23. Qf5 Qg2 24. Neg6+ Qxg6 25. Nxg6+ Kh7 26. Nxf4+ Kh8 27. Ng6+ Kh7 28. Ne7+ Kh8 29. Qf8 Nf6 30. Qxa8 with White's awesome Queen and Knight windmill mopping up clearly decisive material.]
|Jan-15-05|| ||patzer2: <chopbox> Your 21. c2+ does seem efficient, winning <without messing around>.|
My analysis with Fritz 8 goes 21. c2+ h8 [21...g6 22. Bxg6+ Kg7 23. Bxe8 Qg2 (23...Be6 24. Qe5+ Kh7 25. Ba4 Qg2 26. Bc2+ Ng6 27. Bxg6+ Qxg6 28. Nxg6 ) 24. Qf7+ Kh8 25. Qxf8+ Kh7 26. Bg6+ ] 22. f7! e6 [22...Nf6 23. Qxf8+ Ng8 24. Qxg8#] 23. xf8+ g8 24. xg8#
|Jan-15-05|| ||vangogh228: So, patzer, what you're saying is my original post matches Fritz?? Well, that's a first... |
|Jan-15-05|| ||patzer2: <vangogh228> Pretty much yes. However, I do try to weed out a lot of meaningless computer type moves in the analysis (e.g. complex mate in 12 when a simple capture of material will work), preferring to focus on finding responses to the kinds of moves humans are likely to make. |
|Jan-15-05|| ||RonB52734: Honestly, DrJimmy, I actually solved this one before my father's testicles were fully developed.|
|Jan-16-05|| ||dbquintillion: i think johnboy wins the best "how easy was this puzzle" joke. this is especially discouraging because i had four chances. |
|Jan-19-05|| ||Shah Mat: I solved this game for mate after 1. e4. |
|Mar-31-12|| ||vkwow: 17. Bd5 does get white a clear advantage(about a pawn) after Bd5 Qh3 Nxc8 Rxc8 Qd3 f3 Bxf3. However, Qh5 is just completely winning, while after Bd5 there would still be some work to do.|
|Mar-31-12|| ||Julian713: <<JohnBoy>:And, by the way, I've unearthed a fossil bed clearly indicating that this puzzle was solved by euglenae several hundred million years before the central nervous system evolved.>|
+1 for the biology joke :D
|Mar-31-12|| ||Madman99X: I was trying to find a way to make it end with a smothered mate, just because I like smothered mate. I had to settle for the text, though. (Not that I actually figured it out.)|
|Mar-31-12|| ||dzechiel: White to move (17?). Material even. "Very Difficult."|
Doing taxes this evening. Ugh. Taking a break to look at chess (a much more pleasant proposition).
It seems likely that black just captured on g2 with the queen. Casting about for a key move, I think that
deserves attention. Is this move so powerful that white can give up a whole rook with check? Let's see...
17...Qxh1+ 18 Kd2
After this king move, black doesn't have any checks (after 18 Ke2 black would have 18...Qe4+ or 18...f3+, moves that would distract white from his own assault on the king).
The threat now is 19 N5g6#. Another threat is 19 Qxe8, scooping up all manner of material (on 19...Rxe8 20 Nf7# is mate). what is black to do? On...
I think white can get away with
Once again the threat is 20 N5xg6#. Black can't defend with
20 N5xg6+ Rxg6 21 Nxg6+ Kg8 22 Qf8#
(Note that black's knight on e6 is pinned by the white bishop on b3).
Well, that's all the time I'm going to spend on this tonight. I think it's correct, but I am eager to see the actual play.
Time to check.
The right idea, but black came up with a different defence (which also didn't work).
|Mar-31-12|| ||rilkefan: I had 21.Bc2+, which also wins. Actually it turns out stockfish rather prefers this (+15 more than 21.Qxe8 Be6, though a crush is a crush), with 21. Bc2+ g6 22. Bxg6+ Kg7 23. Bxe8 Qg1 24. Qf7+ Kh8 25. Qxf8+ Kh7 26. Bg6+.|
Again relatively easy, especially after the nightmarish midweek. ...Rc1 [shudder].
Hmm, looks like sf prefers 18...Qe4, which I didn't consider, even though that just drops the queen.
|Mar-31-12|| ||newzild: SATURDAY: 1.29 - 1.52
After inspecting and rejecting an immediate knight check on g6, I think White should ditch the Rh1 and commence a foray with the queen.
Threatening 18. N5g6+. Black has several defensive tries, with or without the insertion of 17...Qxh1+ 18. Kd2. Let's assume that he does not capture the rook, keeping his queen's defence of the g-file.
a) 17...g6 18. N7xg6+ Kg7 19. Nxf8 Qxh1+ (19...Kxf8 20. Qf7#; 19...Nxf8 20. Qf7+ Kh6 [Kh8 21. Qxf8+ Qg8 22. Nf7#] 21. Qxf8+ followed by 22. Qxe8 + ) 20. Kd2 with a winning attack
b) 17...c5 is similar to a)
c) 17...h6 18. N5g6+ Kh7 19. Nxf8+ Nxf8 20. Qxf8, with deadly threats including the capture of the Nf8 and a mate with the queen on g8.
d) 17...Qe5+ Kd2 does not seem to allow any defence to the above variations.
Time to check.
|Mar-31-12|| ||newzild: Pleased to get this one, after missing a side-variation on Wednesday.|
5/6 this week.
|Mar-31-12|| ||newzild: I did a typo.
"b) 17...c5 is similar to a)"
Of course, this should have been 17...g5.
|Mar-31-12|| ||WinKing: It seems that black's threat of ...Qxh1+ must be dealt with quickly. No knight or bishop move by white works. 17.Rf1 doesn't lead to anything that I can see and is very passive. So let's try 17.Qf3 which protects the rook.|
18.Nxf3 Bd7 <(& I don't see how white makes progress from here...
looks about equal. Maybe trying a rook sac with Qh5 which is a very pro-active move but at a cost.)>
18.Kd2 <(the threat is 19.N5g6#)>
18...h6 - looks like best defense <(if 18...Qe4 19.N5g6+ Qxg6 20.Nxg6+ Kg8 21.Nxf8 Kxf8 & white is up material-looks like enough to win; also if 18...g6 19.Qh6 Rf6 20.N5g6+ Rxg6 21.Nxg6+ Kg8 22.Qf8# taking advantage of the pinned knight.)>
21.Qxe8 <(& white wins a piece here I believe. This is as far as I could see it clearly. Not sure if this is it. I feel I may have missed something here let's look.)>
|Mar-31-12|| ||WinKing: Here is one try I missed courtesy of Rybka:
18.Kd2 Rf6?! <(I totally missed this possibility)>
19.Qf7! <(are you kidding me!)>
click for larger view
How are mere mortals supposed to see a move like this?
|Mar-31-12|| ||cyclon: My suggestion is 17. Qh5, after which Whites threats seems to be stronger than Blacks though position gets messy. For example, 17. -Qxh1+ 18. Kd2 doesn't seem to change anything in Blacks favour and because Black Queen is off the g-file there's already mate-threat next by 19. N5g6X. If (after 17. Qh5) 17. -g6, then White may play even 18.Qh6 without going into billions of variations. Then, if (17. Qh5) 17. -h6, there might be some beautiful combination but I'd play it more "safely" by 18. N7g6+ K- and then 19. Nxf8/+. In my view White retains more dangerous threats. He can give well a Rook or two if needed.|
|Mar-31-12|| ||sevenseaman: Equal, 2 Ps off for each.
First thoughts: Two things I fancy here;
i) the early N-work trying to save the h1 R, a tad risky.
ii) Q to h5 to collaborate in the N-work even better, scuttling the h1 R. (I think I can handle Qxh1+).
Therefore I try ii) and write my fancied line with notes later.
17. Qh5 Qxh1+? 18. Kd2 h6 19. N5g6+ Kh7 20. Nxf8* Nxf8 21. Qxe8 Bxd4** 22. Bc2+ g6 23. Qf7+ Kh8 24. Qg8#.
* better than 20. Bxe6.
** though Bf5 loses the R the Q will prefer to wriggle to g8 via f7. My B at b3 prevents the Black LSB defending against this plan from e6.
I feel fairly confident of my line.
click for larger view
21. Bf5 could possibly be argued as a better move here. It will lead to a variation that will perhaps delay the win for longer. But White has enough attacking preponderance and I foresee no complications in that line too.
|Mar-31-12|| ||offramp: <WinKing> That variation with Qf7 is very good. Well spotted!|
|Mar-31-12|| ||WinKing: <offramp: <WinKing> That variation with Qf7 is very good. Well spotted!>|
I would have played 19.Qxe8+ never seeing Qf7.
|Mar-31-12|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: Qd1-h5 simply screams at you. The rest is details.|
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