chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Pal Benko vs Milan Rodoje Vukcevich
70th US Open (1969), Lincoln, NE USA, rd 10, Aug-20
English Opening: Anglo-Indian Defense. King's Indian Formation (A15)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 1 more Benko/Vukcevich game
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: If you find a mistake in the database, use the correction form. There is a link at the bottom that reads "Spot an error? Please suggest your correction..." Avoid posting corrections in the kibitzing area.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-14-06  dakgootje: <Tariqov> i only partly agree, as most people with an alternative solution wants to know as quick as possible whether theirs is right too, thus if such a situation arises it often happens people immediately throw the position in their fritz shredder or other program to analyse, after which they post it. So i think because of that it wont be possible to discuss here completely without computers (dont say we cant try it, only that it probably wont work). on slightly differant subject, i think that there is a possibilty to exclude computers from life games, as there, there is time enough to make some decent analysis before posting and before they moved again...
May-14-06  Open Defence: <chessgames.com> on some other websites they have an option to post the solution within <hint> </hint> tags that results in the solution being hidden ...so a computer analysis could be hidden that way and only those that want to check it out can see it .. for example I could post "21.Rf8+ loses to <hint> the solution </hint> but i foud that using Fritz or Rybka etc" .. but then again I personally dont use computers....
May-14-06  dakgootje: <Open Defence> Might be good idea, just like some of the earlier posted ones to do something about the "first"-posters
May-14-06  Moondoll: I kept looking at 21.Rg7+ Kxg7 22.Qxe3 Nxe3 23.Ne6 forking the king and queen. couldn't figure out what to do if black played Kh8, and I just couldn't see any other clear plan. Interesting puzzle. Good one for Sunday.
May-14-06  EmperorAtahualpa: <Open Defence> Actually this <hint> </hint> system could also be used during live chess broadcasts. There are quite a lot of people who are getting tired of others ruining the conversation with computer engine analyses. See User: adrianp for more details.
May-14-06  EmperorAtahualpa: Completely missed this puzzle again. :( Not much success for me the last few days...I'll be looking forward to Monday!
May-14-06  TheSlid: My joy at getting my first ever Sunday puzzle was short lived. I found <Maria Nikolova>'s line too. Should have looked harder.
May-14-06  percyblakeney: As with live games I personally like to know how computers evaluate the positions, since they understand these things much better than I do...
May-14-06  hdgcfcf: At move 21, I came up with

21. Qxe3 Nxe3
22. Rfd Rxfd
23. Rxf8 Kxf8
24. Ne6

Is there a problem with the move?

May-14-06  RandomVisitor: <hd>I nothing wrong with your sequence... but White just has a better move in 21.Nf3.
May-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  jahhaj: <hdqcfcf> (Without a computer) I would say that after 21.Qxe3 Nxe3 22.Rf8+ Rxf8 23.Rxf8+ Kxf8 24.Ne6+ Kg8 25.Nxg5 26.Nc2 White has a poor endgame to defend, he's certainly not winning and could be losing.
May-14-06  numbersguy70: Can someone tell me why Black gives up the knight with Qh6 when Qh5 is available?

Thanks

May-14-06  likestofork: <RandomVisitor> I thunk the same thought as far as the 21....Rxf3 line is concerned. It puts up more of a fight than what black did, but it's still pretty hopeless. The R-N combination won't be able to communicate well enough to prevent the Q from picking off the pawns. Sort of like Catherine the Great discarding lovers.....or would that be Vamperella dispatching lovers? Whatever. Black's pawns can't be defended.
May-14-06  c o r e: I saw <hdgcfcf>'s line with 21.♕xe3 but it looked like a draw. I felt certain that there must have been something greater planned, but I couldn't see it.

On the subject of computer assistance: it is a wonderful tool. I don't let computers play OTB for me, but they're great for post game analysis and theory preparation. With a little bit of computer knowhow, we can all review our games with a GM- and how could that be bad?

May-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Nice ending-I didn't see it coming! :(

I saw a similar game a few days ago.

May-14-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  OBIT: On the subject of computer-assisted analysis: I think it is okay to have it here, since, as others have said, it does allow us to get to the truth of a position more quickly. For example, in this position I was thinking 21...Rxf3 refuted 21. Nf3 when I initially looked at the solution, since 22. Qb2, 22. Qc3, and 22. gxf3 all seemed to give Black a good game. However, RandomVisitor's 2900 strength computer found the only move here, that being 22. Rf8+!

Since the guys using computers seem to be up front about their computer usage, i.e. not claiming they found the moves on their own, they get no complaints from me - let them use that program to find the holes in any analysis cooked up by our feeble human brains.

May-14-06  Open Defence: my opinion is that it is great to have computer analysis but a compromise by giving an option to hide the analysis by a link or different coloured text would serve the wishes of those who wouldnt like to have their individual efforts spoiled while also serving the wishes of those who like to see the evals
May-14-06  old coot: Last!
May-14-06  RandomVisitor: Is there any hope for Black after 21.Nf3 Rxf3?

21... Rxf3
22. Rf8+ Kg7 (22... Rxf8 23. Rxf8+ Rxf8 24. Qxg5 Nf6 25. Qa5 d5 26. Qxa7 Rf7 27. a4 dxc4 28. dxc4 Rd7 29. a5 Kg7 30. h3 Rd1+ 31. Kh2 4.48/24)

23. R4f7+ Rxf7
24. Rxf7+ Kxf7
25. Qxg5 Nf6 (25... Ne5 26. c5 Re8 27. Qf4+ Ke6 28. cxd6 a6 29. h3 h5 30. Qg5 Kxd6 31. d4 3.19/24)

26. Qa5 b6
27. Qa6 Nd7
28. Qb7 Rd8
29. Qxc6 Nf6
30. d4 Rd7
31. Qa4 2.75/21

May-14-06  alcappacino: What's wrong with 21.Rf8+ Rxf8 22.Rxf8+ Kxf8 23.Ne6+ Rxe6 24.Qxg5 earning the black queen. Now it's White queen against black rook and knight and white should have good chances of winning. Anything I might have missed?
May-14-06  RandomVisitor: 24...Re1 mate.
May-14-06  isgettingbester: got one!
May-14-06  kolio: I must be blind... What's wrong with simply 21. Rxg4 ?
May-14-06  alcappacino: Thanks RandomVisitor. I certainly did miss something!
May-15-06  RandomVisitor: <kolio>21.Rxg4 Qxg4 22.Qxe3 Kxf7
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
21.? (May 14, 2006)
from Sunday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Jaredfchess
21.? (Sunday, May 14)
from POTD English by takchess
21.? (Sunday, May 14)
from Puzzle of the Day 2006 by Phony Benoni
21. Nf3!!
from Deflection by patzer2
Round 10 (Wednesday, August 20): CLR 1969.11:438; TBL43
from US Open 1969, Lincoln by Phony Benoni
Game collection: A15
by Chessdreamer


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC