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Siegbert Tarrasch vs Nathan Mannheimer
"Better than Nathan" (game of the day Sep-21-2005)
Breslau (1880)
Italian Game: Two Knights Defense. Open Variation (C55)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 11 times; par: 39 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  An Englishman: Good Evening: Another good pun, if you know music, is "Mannheimer Steamrolled."
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: Already taken = N Mannheimer vs Nimzowitsch, 1930
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: I think black can defend by playing 25...Be7. Then after 26. Rxe7 Nxe7 27. Qxe7 Qxh6 or 26. Bg7+ Nxg7 27. Rxe7 Re8, black threatens a back-row mate.
Sep-21-05  woodenbishop: A true Tarrasch classic!
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  khense: 26 Bg7+ a hard move for humans to see (but not for computers). Thank god computers don't get to enjoy their moves!
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  xenophon: reminds me of the obstetrician asking a new mother "what are you going to call your son,Mrs Jones?" "Nathan" comes the reply;to which the doctor retorts "Nathan!you can't call him Nathan! you have to call him something"
Sep-21-05  IT4LICO: If 26 ..,Nxh6 27 Rg3; if 26 ..,Qxh6; 27 Qe8+,Kg7 28 Qg8#
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Very appropriate pun for this game. It seems that from about move 10 forward, Tarrasch is firing all of the shots, and Mannheimer is just trying to hold it together.
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: It looks like Mannheimer was trying the rope-a-dopa vs Tarrasch and he is no Ali! He got manhandled. Let's face it,Nathan is a hot dog!! (New Yorkers will get that one.)
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: <kevin86> Takeru Kobayashi will eat him up alive... (under 2 seconds too!)
Sep-21-05  p8riot: But for the Bishop pin, 22. ...RxR 23.QxR QxQ#
Sep-21-05  Calculon: Should black have given up a pawn and played 9 ... d5 to free up his queen side pieces? Would he have been better off?
Sep-21-05  EmperorAtahualpa: Nice game of the day!

Is 25...Qxh6 not a defensive option for Black?

Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <EmperorAtahualpa> On 25 ... Qxh6 White has Mate in Two with 26. Re8+ or 26. Qe8+.

<al wazir> Yes, 25 ... Be7 should win the exchange for Black (26. Rxe7 Nxe7) because the Bh6 is attacked twice. Note 26. Bf4? Rd8 and the weak back rank is fatal for White.

This is a markedly inferior 2N line where Black's Knights clutter up the center. Look at the position after 16 ... Nd6 and I would bet White would win 10 out of 10 from here. Black has much better practical chances entering the Max Lange (4 ... ed 5. 0-0 Bc5).

Sep-21-05  samvega: <al wazir>, <tpstar> I'm gonna to stick up for my homeboy Siegbert: 25..Be7! 26.Rd3 Qxh6 (not Nxh6 27.Qxe7 Re8 28.Rd8 nor Rd8 27.Qxd8+ etc) 27.g4 Bd6 28.Qxf5 Qxh2+ maybe draws.

<tpstar> 25..Be7 26.Bf4 Rd8 27.Rxe7 Rxd7 28.Rxd7 gives the advantage to white doesn't it? Wouldn't it just be 26..Nxe3?

Sep-21-05  lentil: seems that 11. .. Kh8 (rather than the retrogressive ..Bd8) would have been much better. unpinned, the N/e6 covers c7, and B retains the option of recapturing on f6 with the B.
Sep-21-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <samvega> 1) After 25 ... Be7 26. Rd3 Qxh6 27. g4!? Black has 27 ... Nh4 and the Be7 is immune (28. Qxe7? Qc1+ mates) and then 28 ... Bd6 keeps the extra piece. 2) 25 ... Be7 26. Bf4? Rd8 27. Rxe7!? Rxd7 28. Rxd7 Qe8 29. Rd1 Qe2 and Black will romp in the endgame with Q for RB. Yet 26 ... Nxe3 looks simpler at first glance, forcing 27. fxe3 (27. Bxe3? Rd8 so there :p) due to the mate threat on g2. But then the Pc7 falls, so White has 2 Pawns for the exchange. I prefer the first option, but both lines should win.
Sep-22-05  psmith: <tpstar> <samvega> Chesslab.com's computer suggests 25... Be7 26. Re1 with advantage to white. If 26... Nxh6 27. Qxe7; if 26... Qxh6 27. Qxf5; if 26... Bd6 27. Be3. white is a pawn up at least in all lines.
Sep-22-05  samvega: <tpstar> I seem to do this a lot: I could swear I looked at 27..Nh4 (the obvious rejoinder), but now I don't remember what I had in mind! Perhaps it was 28.Re3 Bf8 29.Qe6, but black defends easily... I admit defeat.

Regarding the second variation, 29..Qe2 is taboo because 30.Rd8+ heads to mate (so there :p) (but maybe black is better nevertheless...?).

<psmith> Thanks. Takes a computer to show how simple it is! 25..Be7 26.Re1 Rd8 27.Qxc7, now 27..Qxh6?? 28.Qxd8+ Bxd8 29.Re8+, or 26..Nh4 27.Bd5 Rd8 28.Qxe7. That Siegburt!

Sep-22-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <samvega> Oh right, I was just testing you - I meant 29 ... Nd4 because 30. Rxd4? Qe1# heads to mate (so there :p) but yes I forgot that the Bishops cover f7 & h6, so the Queen can't abandon the back rank yet. I wonder what the computer thinks about 25 ... Be7 26. Re1 Nh4 - probably the boring 27. Qh3.

Don't say "defeat," partner - we're here to learn together. =)

Mar-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  ralph46: I was doing the game on the guess the move and at the end was wondering why black did not play 25 ..Be7 i do not have an engine but found a move for white 26 Bf7 black can take either bishop and white takes the knight on f5 if 26..Qg4 simply 27 h3
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