|Sep-12-04|| ||jose manuel: has anybody analized this game? i have and i dont see a reason why the king can't retrieve back to e8 on move 11 if it does,after queen takesb4 i would play Qg5 with some nasty treats the best response for white 0-0 bhishoph3 only way to defend g3 and white will be down a rook i mean maybe i didn't analized deeper,i know greco was a great player and all but could somebody tell me if im right or wrong? |
|Sep-12-04|| ||clocked: <jose manuel> your idea of attack is good, but white doesn't need to castle into it. Look at 13.Nd2 instead |
|Sep-12-04|| ||jose manuel: ok but Qxg2 would follow and what would you do next?0-0-0 is best to defend the rook but white is still down a pawn,of course i would have to analized deeper to have a better idea of how the game would end |
|Sep-12-04|| ||clocked: better to look at black's king, and the out of play rooks than at the pawn count |
|Sep-12-04|| ||Bucky Katt: Black's mistake is on move eleven. Instead of 11...Kg8 disconnecting his rooks, as pointed out by clocked; Black should have played 11...Ke6. Play might continue 12. Qxb4 c5 13. Qa4 Qb6. |
|Mar-02-05|| ||InspiredByMorphy: although 11. ...Ke8 or 11. ...Ke6 would have been a better continuation it still doesent save blacks game. Blacks King stuck in the center will become a big hamper in the middle of whites active development. Besides that what can black attack? Blacks mistake was earlier with the greedy 7. ...Nxe4 instead of 7. ...Bxd2 8.Nxd2 O-O and if 9.e5 d5 gives black a good game . |
|Mar-02-05|| ||soberknight: Black could have equalized with 12...Qf8 (threatens Qxf2+), forcing White to exchange queens. The resulting endgame favors black because White has a weak isolated d-pawn.|
White can improve on his ninth move with Qb3 or O-O.
|Mar-02-05|| ||InspiredByMorphy: <soberknight> I agree 12. ...Qf8 was a better continuation, but I dont think black favors from whites isolated d pawn. If that is the only weakness white has, I think it is better than the position of blacks king and the out of play king rook. A sample continuation could be 12. ...Qf8 13.Qxf8+ Kxf8 14.Nc3 Nxc3 15.bxc3 and the d pawn is now protected. White can also then castle either side next move. |
|Mar-02-05|| ||soberknight: <InspiredByMorphy> On further analysis, I agree with you. 13 Qxf8+ Kxf8 14 Nc3 Nxc3 (...Nf6 15 Nb5 c6 16 Nd6 Ke7 17 Nxc8 Raxc8 18 b4!) 15 bxc3 Bf5 16 g4 Be4 17 f3 Bg6 18 O-O Re8 19 f4, or 15...b6 16 O-O a5 17 a4 Ba6 18 Rfe1 with a clear advantage for White in all lines, mainly because of his strong outpost knight on e5. |
|Mar-03-05|| ||Cyphelium: <IBM & soberknight> After 12.- f8 13. xf8+ xf8 14. c3 f6 15. b5 c6 (15.- e8!?) 16. d6 e7 17. xc8+, black can play 17.- hxc8 instead. Then 18. b4 is bad because of 18. -a5, which gives black an edge, since white will now get a weak a-pawn in addition to the d-pawn. I don't think black has to fear any other 18th move either: it looks even. (18. e1 d6 19. f7+ d7 20. e5+ d6 anyone?)|
The idea b5-d6xc8 looks dubious to me. Not only does it help black develop his pieces, but also one of white's main trumphs disappear: the knight versus the bishop. As could be seen in <soberknight's> analysis, after 15. c3 xc3?, white gets an edge because the knight is unchallenged on e5. Likewise, after 15.- f6, white could play something simple (16.0-0!?) and let black worry about that outpost on e5. If he tries to exchange it with d7, white can play xd7 and then manoveure the other knight to e5. Also white will get his rooks out faster. Perhaps he could claim a slight edge there?
|Mar-03-05|| ||InspiredByMorphy: <Cyphelium> In the line 12. ...Qf8 13.Qxf8+ Kxf8 14.Nc3 Nf6 is an improvement leaving whites d pawn isolated and protecting the knight, however it does allow white to keep the initiative and achieve superior development. You and soberknight have undoubtedly found a better continuation for black than in the game though. It would have kept the game going with not much more than a positional advantage for white. |
|Mar-03-05|| ||soberknight: As usual, you are correct, and Nb5-d6-c8 gives up much of White's advantage. I looked through the other games in the database with 7...Nxe4?! They all continued 8 Bxf7+ Kxf7 9 Qb3+ d5 10 Ne5+. Now I think 10...Ke6 is best. 11 Qxb4 and now 11...Qf8 makes more sense because 12 Qxf8 Rxf8 13 O-O Nf6! 14 Re1 Kd6 15 Nc3 c6 and Black's position, although unpleasant, is better than after 10...Kg8. However, Glenn Flear in 2002 played 11...c5, got a decent counterattack, and drew. It's surprising that anyone would want to put his king in the center in an even-material middlegame, but Flear apparently had some serious guts. |
|Sep-26-07|| ||wolfmaster: 16...Ba6?? Ooooooh dear...|
|Aug-10-08|| ||just a kid: 16...Ba6???Only a idiot can play that move.|