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| May-22-04 | | d4Nf6Bg5: 6.c4?! Why would greco play this, releasing the tension in the center. |
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| Jun-13-04 | | Tartalacreme: Probably because there were no books on the French defence in 1620. |
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| Jun-16-04 | | Jesuitic Calvinist: Yes, Greco's ...c4 looks a bit strange to us nowadays, but I still like this game a lot. As is well known, it is widely thought that Greco invented all of the games between himself and NN, or at least most of them. If we are looking for Greco games that might have actually been played rather than composed, this one is probably a strong candidate. The opposite bishop ending is very nice. |
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| Jun-16-04 | | waddayaplay: A good question...
The point is that it makes the move Be3 useless and locks in the B on f1. Then I suppose black's plan is to attack the pawns on b2/c3.But if white had tried 11.b4 I don't think black would have had much play. |
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| Jul-14-04 | | Jesuitic Calvinist: I have posted some thoughts on this game in a discussion on the French a while ago. As I said there, this must be the "grandfather" of French Defence games and includes the first recorded triumphant "French bishop". Also probably the first recorded opposite bishop ending and positional sac. |
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| Jan-01-05 | | Jaymthegenius: People say that Greco fabricated games, but m opinion is that they were REAL games played against other people that he included in his book. Did Greco play the Euwe variation? Talk about ahead of youre time!!! though 11...bxc4 would be much stronger then 11...dxc4 which Greco played, as it would connect his pawns more. They had AWFUL defensive and endgame technique in those days though, 19...Bc6 is also a premature mating threat, better would be 19...Nb3 to get the knight off the edge. 21...Kxd4 is TOTALLY UNSOUND!!! White had a won game due to the extra knight. and when black could have won it again he playes 24...Qc5 I would capture the knight if I were Greco. My Rating on chess21.com is 2167, so I think I have an idea of how to make Greco's game even better. Anyone analyse this game into a computer, then it would say it is VERY flawed! |
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| Jan-01-05 | | Jaymthegenius: I mean 21...Nxd4, siily me! |
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| Jan-01-05 | | Jaymthegenius: Oh I forgot 21...Nxd4??  I forget alot. |
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| Jan-01-05 | | sneaky pete: The knight sacrifice seems correct, white's extra piece (Bg5) is completely out of play. Jtg's improvement 24... Bxb1?? however loses to 25.Qxd4 .. etc. |
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| Jan-01-05 | | Milo: How about 37.gxh5 ?
I'm no expert, but 37...Bxh5 38.Kh2 Kg6 (38...Kh6 39.h4) 39.Kg3 seems like it ought to hold, to me. |
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| Jan-03-05 | | Jaymthegenius: 37...gxh5 gives white doubled pawns,
I mean 24...Qxc3 I forgot the hanging queen. |
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| Mar-08-05 | | Autoreparaturwerkbau: At least black put Greco at the "real" [ok we knew the winner would be Greco anyways didn't we? :)] test in this game. By the way it is by margin of 14 moves the longest of Greco's "73"wins-"0"losses games, so was in some trouble hehehe |
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| Mar-08-05 | | soberknight: White's play in the endgame was positively awful. 39 h4 would block the pawns and make it much harder for Black to get a K-side passed pawn. Also, 40 Bb4 Bg2 41 Bd2 Bxh3 42 Kf2 Kf5 43 Kg1 Kg4 44 Kh2 might have delayed the loss a little longer. |
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| Mar-17-05 | | InspiredByMorphy: <waddayaplay> <if white had tried 11.b4 I don't think black would have had much play.> I am of the opinion that black, much like with 21. ...Nxd4 would sac the knight for two pawns, an attack, and two connected passed pawns with 11. ...Nxb4 . |
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| Mar-17-05 | | InspiredByMorphy: <Jaym> <My Rating on chess21.com is 2167, so I think I have an idea of how to make Greco's game even better.> If your not stating an official USCF or FIDE rating your not going to gain credibility. Its not enough to say such a thing yet not provide analysis to back your words. How would you have done better? If 21. ...Nxd4 wasent sound than where is your response to prove it? <Anyone analyse this game into a computer, then it would say it is VERY flawed!> What is chess without mistakes? Besides that, and more importantly, computers are very flawed themselves. Remember that a human being programmed any chess program you play. |
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| Mar-17-05 | | InspiredByMorphy: <soberknight> <39 h4 would block the pawns and make it much harder for Black to get a K-side passed pawn.> I too at first thought 39.h4 looked better but after 39.h4 Kf5 the threat is 40. ...Kg4 attacking the undefended h pawn. If 39.h4 Kf5 40.Kg3 Ke4 works the king toward the passed pawn on the b file. |
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| Apr-02-05 | | Jaymthegenius: Greco showed some outstanding endgame tecnique for the 17th century, white even defended in this game!!!! Defense wasnt even known of in that time! Grecos greatness shines at around move 27, securing the passed pawn. |
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| Dec-13-05 | | Jaymthetactician: This game is actually not that bad, but 11...bxd4 is better as there is the other pawn, though Greco shown that 11...exd4 is playable and 17...Na5?? hands white an advantage with 18.Be4 As it closes all arguments. My computer is currently analysing 25 games, I am doing a comparison, I took this game, along with Greco vs NN, 1620
Greco vs NN, 1620
Along with
Larsen vs Deep Blue, 1993
Some Deep Blue games not in this database (In 1993 an IM exploited a blunder by Deep Blue viciously being down a rook in a scotch game) Also some Steinitz games,
And Morphy vs. Anderssen.
And some of my game collections.
However don't get the impression Greco's stronger then Deep Blue or Steinitz, in spite of Deep Blues ? and ?? marks and being corrected more then Greco. (We do have time trouble nowadays, and Greco has opponents that failed to exploit his mistakes)
Also a 1/2 1/2 with Steinitz vs. Bird I really like Birds opening in that game with 1.d4 f5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 Nf6
5.Bd3 Nc6 6.Ne2 O-O 7.O-O Bxc3 8.bxc3 b6 9.f3 Bb7 |
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| Dec-13-05 | | Jaymthetactician: Oh, I found that game here!
Steinitz vs Bird, 1899 |
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| May-11-06 | | Runemaster: I love this game. The play around move 27 is particularly interesting. |
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| Sep-29-07 | | realbrob: I'm glad I found a game in which Greco reached the endgame - usually he mates the opponent around move 15!
They went on playing until move 50, but in my opinion after 32..Bxb1 the game is over. Greco's outside passed pawn gives him a winning endgame, even though the presence of opposite colours bishops could mix things up a bit. Anyway there was no need to use the outside passed pawn because NN (who was a good player if you consider they were in the 16th century) wasn't so good at playing endgames. It's funny to see Greco (1600-1634) playing the Euwe variation of the French! |
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| Nov-15-08 | | gambitfan: gtm hetero bishop endgame +1
a nice bishop endgame ! |
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Sep-21-09
 | | Gypsy: From http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... Jeremy Silman (Los Angeles, CA, USA) informs us that he has been studying the games of Gioacchino Greco (1600-circa 1634) with increasing admiration: ‘There are many games which show Greco toying with his hopelessly over-matched opponents, and one gains the impression that he was a master of tactics and of open games, and that he was so far beyond other players of his time that it was, in effect, a case of a grandmaster versus players rated between 1000 and 1800. Once in a while, Greco would face someone who could fight back, which allows us to see Greco’s positional skills. It is possible that some, or even all, of the games were fabricated, but even if they were inventions they still show a chess understanding centuries ahead of his time. < 11. bxc4>
(Black has to recapture the pawn on c4. Either choice is playable, but one stands out above the other.) <11…dxc4> (Breaking the old “always capture towards the center” rule. This gives Black far more to work with than the pedestrian 11...bxc4. With 11...dxc4, Black creates a home on d5 for a knight, opens up the a8-h1 diagonal for his queen (and potentially for his light-squared bishop too) and, most importantly, creates a queen’s-side majority of pawns. This means that Black, whenever he chooses to do so, can make a passed pawn by ...b4.) ...> |
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Jan-05-10
 | | David2009: NN vs Greco, 1620: NN played very well (game 73) until he blundered at move 37: 
click for larger view Now 37 g5?? surrenders the white squares: instead 37.Kf2 holds: e.g. 37...Be4 38.Kg3 Kg6 39.Kh4 Bf3 40.Kg3 with a draw. <Jan-01-05 Milo: How about 37.gxh5? I'm no expert, but 37...Bxh5 38.Kh2 Kg6 (38...Kh6 39.h4) 39.Kg3 seems like it ought to hold, to me>. This line seems to lose: the BK penetrates e.g. 37.gxh5 Bxh5 38.Kh2 Kg6 39.Kg3 Kf5. Alternatively 37.gxh5 Bxh5 38.Kf2 Kg6 39.Ke3 Kf5
40.Bf8 g6 41.Be7 Bd1 42.Bf8 Bc2 43.Be7 Be4 44.Bf8 Bg2 45.h4 Kg4 46.Be7 Bd5 
click for larger view
and White (to play) is in zugzwang.
In opposite-coloured Bishop endings, the defender needs to contest the squares covered by the attacking Bishop with his Pawns. To do this safely, the defender should not move Pawns without a clear reason. For example 34 g4! was correct (otherwise the BK marches in) as was 36 h3!. White needs to contest the White squares, posting all white Pawns on Black squares is hopeless. On-line link to the position at move 37 to explore these variations:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... You are white, drag and drop the move you want to make. Enjoy! |
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| Jan-05-10 | | ounos: From a cursory look, it seems that NN missed a win with 27. Be7
click for larger viewBlocking the queen-side pawns. The point being 27. ...Qxe7 28. Qxd3:
click for larger view |
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sac: 21...Nxd4