Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Emil Joseph Diemer vs Toth
"Tothache" (game of the day Dec-11-2014)
Lindau City CZE (1948)
Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Ryder Gambit (D00)  ·  1-0


explore this opening
find similar games 1 more E J Diemer/Toth game
sac: 10.Qxb8+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can display posts in reverse order, by registering a free account then visiting your preferences page and checking the option "Display newest kibitzes on top."

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: Seems like I've seen this one before... 10 Qxb8+ Nxb8 11 Nxc7#
Premium Chessgames Member
  doubledrooks: 10. Qxb8+ and mates next move:

a. 10..Bc8 11. Qxc8#

b. 10...Nxb8 11. Nxc7#

Nov-28-11  abuzic: <5.Qxf3>

5.Nxf3 a natural developing move is better in this position.

This allowed white to grasp the initiative with 7.0-0-0! Black had better moves like 6...Qh4+, 6...Qd7, 6...Qg4 keeping the initiative.

A trap is set by white <sevenseaman: The trap starts with 8. Nb5 when it threatens mate from c7>, black cannot take 8...Bxf3?? 9.Nc7#.

I think this is a natural and only positive defence to 8.Nb5 and the Nc7 threat in this position.

White's trap is still valid... and in fact <9.Qxb7> is the only move that white can play here otherwise he loses, for example:

9.Rd4? Qe1+
10.Rd1 <10.Qd1 Bxd1> 10...Qxd1+ 11.Qxd1 <11.Kxd1 Bxf3+ 12.Nxf3 e6> 11...Bxd1 12.Kxd1 Ng4

or 8...Na6
9.Bd2? Bxf3
10.Bxb4 Bxd1

And black fell into the trap
10.Qxb8+ Nxb8 <10...Bc8 11.Qxc8#> 11...Nxc7#.

9...Qe4 <Nullifidian:> was the only positive defence here:

9.Qxb7 Qe4
10.Qxe4 <10.Qxa6 Qxe3+> 10...Nxe4, and black is OK.

Nov-28-11  Yodaman: <I got it alright, but cannot explain why it took me more than a minute.

Just kept staring at it gawkily, perhaps hallucinating about the possibilities in yesterday's POTD.> Ditto.

Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: 9...Rb8s the fish it too banal qe4 dull.
Nov-28-11 oops.
I tried 10.Nxc7 Nxc7 11.Qxb8.
I overlooked that, after the White Knight moved, the Black queen is now covering b8. Ouch!
Nov-28-11  stst: 10.QxR+
IF (A)...NxQ, 11.Nc7#
IF (B)...Bc8, 11.QxB#
The Bk King is smothered in all cases.
Nov-28-11  stst: <If you like pushing pieces around and dreaming up combinations, try <10.Qxa6>>

No dream, the N is the killer. This dream will evaporate once the N is killed.

Nov-14-14  ColeTrane: toth zi kaivo
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: I do get tired of Diemer's games because they're all the same. He plays a questionable gambit. His opponent plays an even more questionable defense. Explosive sacrifices and a cute mate follow, whereupon the GOTD punsters start working overtime.

But sugar plums fit the season.

Dec-11-14  drleper: <Phony Benoni: I do get tired of Diemer's games because they're all the same. He plays a questionable gambit. His opponent plays an even more questionable defense. Explosive sacrifices and a cute mate follow, whereupon the GOTD punsters start working overtime.>

This one certainly breaks the usual Diemer mould: E J Diemer vs T Heiling, 1984

Dec-11-14  RookFile: Diemer had a 79.6% percentage in this database. Not bad.
Dec-11-14  morfishine: An excellent example of how not to play chess
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: I feel sorry for the Toths of this world.

First there is the ignominy of being born with only one name, which doubtless caused much mirth at school registrations.

Becoming GOTD pun fodder.

Having Star Wars steal part of your name for an ice world.

Then there is the shame of being slaughtered in an off-hand manner in some dodgy opening. You would just know that your illustrious opponent was playing bad moves somewhere along the line. You just wouldn't know which ones ... or how to exploit them.

Black doesn't play too badly in this game. Apart from 7...Bg4 and 9...Rb8, his moves don't look silly. Fritzie agrees with most of them.

I suppose the bottom line is this ... the defender only needs to make one or two mistake to be put to the sword. An attacker can afford to make more mistakes, as long as he finds the killer blow eventually.

There is another reason for feeling a bit of Toth sympathy in this season of good cheer. If I were sat opposite a player like Diemer, I have a sneaking feeling that I would be ripped apart too.

Dec-11-14  pedro99: Too Old To Hiphop
Dec-11-14  waustad: It might be tough finding out who Toth was, since it is such a common Hungarian name. There are 5 pages of them on the FIDE rating list.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Funny, the rook is not the problem: the knight must be diverted!

Toth gets pulled!

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: According to <365chess>, Diemer played a match with Klaus Locher in Lindau, 1948 -- playing White in every recorded game and winning 7-0.

Could this Toth be Locher? Or was a tournament held in addition to this odd match?

Note that the CG database also has a second Diemer-Toth game from Lindau '48 - with a similar opening in which Toth survives for 17 moves.

And isn't Lindau in Germany, not (as here) CZE ...?

Questions, questions...

Dec-11-14  siegbert: Ive got schillers book on the bdg. its full of diemers victories. you get a bit of a shock when you actually play the bdg and often find yourself a pawn down with no prospects.
Dec-11-14  waustad: Somebody played it against me in the bar and I declined, not wanting to step into somebody's prepared attack. I talked to him about it later and realized I know it a lot better than he does.
Dec-11-14  newhampshireboy: I am puzzled by this as I saw this mate coming from a mile away and I am only a rank amateur! You would think a player in a tournament of this level would know more than I do!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <newhampshireboy> That can happen. Occasionally you can see exactly what your opponent is doing, and you still can't find a good way of preventing it.

Case in point: I lost a game recently, as Black against the King's Indian Attack. It's an opening I regularly play as White, and I could see what my opponent was planning ... and yet I failed to counteract his ideas.

Sometimes, by the time when you look for a defence, it's already too late.

Jan-04-15  GoldenBird: Ugh, Ryder Gambit, how disgusting. After 1.d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 exf3 5. Qxf3 c6 and black has a good game, white will have to also be worried about a possible threat of Bg4, gaining tempos on the queen
Nov-29-15  celtrusco: How is it possible? I am Toth!
Dead after only 11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: That mate closely resembles a "Knight Corner Mate", per Game Collection: Checkmate: Checkmate Patterns.

Of course, black isn't being mated in a corner.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Deflection: Diemer had this mating pattern down pat
from Que up Fredthebear's Queen Pawn Game on Que by fredthebear
Deflection: Diemer had this mating pattern down pat
from yKnights Add Spice I Gives Fredthebear Heartburn by fredthebear
LuisHarrouch's immortal games 2
by LuisHarrouch
Diemer does it right ... and he's quick, too!!! (Nov. 27, 2011)
from Interesting "Chess Games" Miniatures! by LIFE Master AJ
Variation of previous game- Deflection
from Winning with 1 d4! by alligator
the pin 7..bg4 won't work in this position
from Opening Traps and Miniatures by biohaz
Halosar Trap [Blackmar-Diemer Gambit]
from Opening Traps Collection by chess.master
from Checkmate miniatures by Kasputin
DrChopper's good games
by DrChopper
Stubhorn's favorite games
by Stubhorn
December 11: Tothache
from Game of the Day 2014 by Phony Benoni
10.? (November 28, 2011)
from Monday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
from Favorite Names by Mayoigo2
Queen sacrifices- 2
by obrit
from Blackmar Diemer Gambits by pureredwhiteblu
Blackmar Diemer Gambit
by Stubhorn
ruvin21's favorite games I
by ruvin21

home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us
Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC