< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jun-17-08|| ||awfulhangover: This was surely played in a simul, and black a beginner/kid.|
|Jun-17-08|| ||TheaN: 2/2
Geez what rubbish Black is here.
...even though Rh8 is completely in... giving away how easy this Tuesday puzzle really is.
Objectively Rd1 is faster played, nonetheless O-O-O looks better AND the playing time depends on HOW you're playing: on a computer, moving the King e1 to c1 is faster (which announces castle queenside) than to move the Rook a1 to d1 (although that would also depend on mouse location but it is about the fact that you don't have to move the Rook on a computer).
<Kasputin: I remember seeing a puzzle somewhere where the challenge was something along the lines of "mate in half a move." The first half of the move was shown on the diagram already - the king had just moved over two squares - and the solution of course was to complete castling by placing the rook on the other side of the king.>
http://www.mybestchess.com/Half_a_m... yeah, it's nice, but in this position very obvious. There are other problems where castling is the only mating move but somehow not that obvious to see.
By the way, this is also mate in half a move: http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/sho... which is also nice: you'd want to do that, just remove a pawn out of nowhere ^^
|Jun-17-08|| ||iscu two: There's a Lasker mate that ends with a 0-0-0, but I think it has more interesting play leading up to it. Does anyone remember the game?|
|Jun-17-08|| ||johnlspouge: Tuesday (Easy): White to play and win.
Material: 2N for 2B. The Black Kd3 has no legal move. An examination of checks reveals the candidate.
Candidates (17.): Ne4+
17.Ne4+ dxe4 18.Rd1#
Ah! After having Tuesday's puzzle on Monday, we now have Monday's puzzle on Tuesday.
|Jun-17-08|| ||dakgootje: <There's a Lasker mate that ends with a 0-0-0, but I think it has more interesting play leading up to it. Does anyone remember the game?>|
Ed Lasker vs G A Thomas, 1912
|Jun-17-08|| ||johnlspouge: <dzechiel>, thanks for explaining the relevance of retroanalysis to moves like 18.O-O-O.|
|Jun-17-08|| ||craigdc: That's uneKvicalay checkmate :-p|
|Jun-17-08|| ||number 23 NBer: 17 e4+ dxe4 18 0-0-0# is the simple answer, living up to the difficulty <Easy>|
|Jun-17-08|| ||zb2cr: Hi <craiqdc>,
You do realize that people have been shot for better puns than that? :-)
|Jun-17-08|| ||YouRang: Well, I found 17.Qxh8 pretty quickly, which wins a rook outright and, with little doubt, the game.|
But that seems way too simple, even for a Tuesday, so there must be a mate in the works (and it smells like one with the knights encircling a cramped king).
So, we peek at the direct check: 17.Ne4+ forcing ...dxe4. Here, either 18.Rd1# or 18.O-O-O#. I would without question would choose the latter -- how often do you get a chance to mate while castling?
|Jun-17-08|| ||kevin86: I saw that the black king had no openings and there was a free bishop to attack with...I then saw that at e4,the only defender is a pawn-who will open the door for a white rook to mate. |
Castling is totally incidental to the mate-Rd1# is just as effective. I guess white wanted to get his name in the paper.
|Jun-17-08|| ||Once: <al wazir> Intriguing thought. Was it a composition? Chessbase.com has another Kvicala game (and several by what appear to be relatives - Josef and Jan Kvicala). So Kvicala does not appear to have been invented just for this game.|
NN would not have hidden his name. It is usually the victor who replaces his opponent’s real name with NN to spare his blushes after an embarrassing defeat.
Overall, I find black's moves to be plausible if not particularly good. So my vote is that this was a real game. It does not have quite the Prince Dadian whiff of composition.
But I couldn't help looking at the position at move 16 and wondering whether black could have wriggled out. 16. ... Be7 does nothing to help his stalemated king. We need to make some luft - how about 16. ... Qg7 instead?
Fritz 11 finds that white's 16. Qxf6 was not the best move. 16. ... Qg7 does prevent the mate (as does Qe7). After 17. Nf7+, white picks up the h8 rook but there is no immediate mate in sight. Fritz rates as +1.8.
Fritz does find a mate in 9 for white. Instead of 16. Qxf6, Fritz points out:
16. Ne4+ Kxe5 17. Qxf6+ Kxe4 18. f3+ Ke3 19. Kf1 e5 20. Re1+ Kd4 21. Qh4+ e4 22. Rxe4+ dxe4 23. Qxe4#
|Jun-17-08|| ||MiCrooks: ONCE what are you talking about?? NN just simply means that the opponents name was not known! Typically as the result of a simul or just because the player that IS known did not record the name for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with someone trying hide their shame for getting beaten so badly! :)|
And as for being much easier than yesterday? What is your basis for comparison? One a brute force combination the other a two move checkmate? Not sure I could say one way or another, but my inclincation would be to say this one might be slightly harder with my basis being if I handed both positions to weak young players I think they would be more likely to come up with yesterdays since it started with a capture rather than a line opening sacrifice.
|Jun-17-08|| ||arnaud1959: This is better than a helpmate puzzle. 11.d6 instead of h6 and Black should have a winning position.|
|Jun-17-08|| ||Once: <microoks> I was replying to <al wazir> who said: <Granted, NN is a patzer -- he's such a fish that he doesn't use his real name.> |
As you quite rightly say, NN means not known. But this does not mean that NN was trying to hide his name as <al wazir> suggested.
NN is sometimes used when the name is known, but there is no point in giving it - ie the person is an unknown or would be needlessly embarrassed by having a loss publicised. It used to be seen as a courtesy when a master published a particularly one-sided game against an amateur.
And I am certainly not saying that this game is easier than yesterday's. I was just interested in whether it was a composition or not - again picking up a question raised by <al wazir>.
|Jun-17-08|| ||zb2cr: Hi <Once>,
So you put Fritz 11 to the task, eh? I'm glad it confirmed and extended the line I eyeballed (see my post above in response to <al wazir>).
I left my analysis after White's 18th, f3+, with the belief that after Black's forced 18. ... Ke3 White would mate after 19. O-O followed by 20. Rae1+ and Qc3+. I wonder why Fritz 11 thinks 19. Kf1 is the fastest way to bring home the point?
|Jun-17-08|| ||Kasputin: <TheaN> thanks for the links.|
|Jun-17-08|| ||MENTATIONALYZER: No need for z castle. But it's notched, toply.|
|Jun-18-08|| ||Once: <Zb2cr> Good call. |
According to Fritz, your line is also a forced mate. It's a little longer than 19. Kf1 as it gives Black a couple of spite checks with Qxh2+ and Bd6+. But the black king stuck so far into white territory can only mean one thing.
|Jun-18-08|| ||patzer2: For the Tuesday June 17, 2008 puzzle, it's mate-in-two with 17. Ne4+!|
|Dec-27-08|| ||WhiteRook48: personally I would prefer Rd1# for checkmate...|
|Jan-02-09|| ||WhiteRook48: it's better to move just one piece. What if you touch your king and forget to say J'adoube?|
|Feb-17-09|| ||WhiteRook48: the castling mate is really great.
I must have lost my mind on that last comment, you just castle-mate.
|Jun-05-09|| ||vonKrolock: <zooter: <vonKrolock:> If you still haunt these forums> The game is here Morphy vs A Morphy, 1850|
|Oct-05-10|| ||smalldreams: <What if you touch your king and forget to say J'adoube?> Are you supposed to call J'adoube when castling? o_O|
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