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NN vs Gioachino Greco
Miscellaneous Game (1620), ?, rd 70
Latvian Gambit: Greco Variation (C40)  ·  0-1


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-12-04  Vischer: This is called the latvian gambit i think.
May-25-04  rochade18: Right you are! This opening must be at least good in blitz games. Seems like 4.Qh5 is already a mistake!
May-25-04  ThePurplePimpernel: Hmm... why not 6. ♗e2? If ♕xg2, then ♘f4+, neh?
May-30-04  rochade18: Nf4 looks quite good. Ok I give up!
Sep-13-04  IT4LICO: 9.Qh3?, Nf2#
Jan-20-05  Jaymthegenius: WOW! More awful latvian gambit play by Greco! Want to see a real latvian gambiteer? Here is one of MY games! ( With something I learned from Greco)

In NN vs. Greco, NN SHOULD HAVE WON THIS!! Nxe5 is a virtual refutation!

More undevelopment, makes me sad that Greco and contemporaries were unawares...

;Title: Yahoo! Chess Game
;White: costislevantis
;Black: jaymthegenius
;Date: Thu Jan 20 15:59:26 GMT 2005

1. e2-e4 e7-e5
2. g1-f3 f7-f5
3. d1-e2 b8-c6
4. b1-c3 g8-f6
5. d2-d3 f5-f4
6. c3-d5 f8-c5
7. g2-g3 f4xg3
8. h2xg3 d7-d6
9. d5xf6+ d8xf6
10. c1-g5 f6-f7
11. o-o-o o-o
12. f3-h4 c6-d4
13. e2-d2 d4-f3
14. d2-a5 f3xg5
15. f2-f4 e5xf4
16. g3xf4 f7xf4+
17. a5-d2 c5-e3
18. e4-e5 e3xd2+
19. c1-b1 c8-g4
20. f1-g2 g4xd1
21. g2xb7 d1-h5
22. b7xa8 f4-f1+
23. h1xf1 f8xf1++

Jan-20-05  Saruman: This one can also be found in Win At Chess.
Premium Chessgames Member
  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> <Nxe5 is a virtual refutation!> Another asinine statement. You provide no analysis to back up your words. Interesting how you provide a game in which your opponent didnt play 3.Nxe5. Also how your game involves a very weak 3rd move from white - 3.Qd2 - in which the database can find no examples of master play ... Opening Explorer
Premium Chessgames Member
  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> In the main line of the Latvian gambit, black not only expects 3.Nxe5 but welcomes it! Material equality is achieved shortly after 3. ...Qf6 Opening Explorer
Jan-22-05  Jaymthegenius: I have read in MCO that only a few lines give an advantage to black and usually white wipes out the whole kingside pawn structure with Be2,Bh5+,...Nxh5,Qxh5+,...g6,Nxg6,...hxg6,Qxh8. Hasnt anyone seen this pattern before?
Premium Chessgames Member
  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> You provide no move numbers. Please clarify.
Jan-31-05  Jaymthegenius: 1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,f5 3.Nxe5,Qd7 4.Be2,d6 5.Bh5+,g6 6.Nxg6,hxg6 7.Qxh8 and white is better by over 5 pawns.
Jan-31-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthegenius> Utter nonsense, as usual. 3... Qd8-d7 followed by 4... d7-d6 and 7.Qd1xh8 .. are illegal moves. If you mean 3... Qe7 4.Be2?? d6?? your winning move 7.Qxh8 .. would still be impossible, but that's irrelevant because of 4... Qxe5 winning.
Feb-01-05  Jaymthegenius: I must have skipped something here, I meant 1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,f5 3.Nxe5,Qe7 4.Be2,d6 5.Bh5+,g6 6.Nxg6,hxg6 7.Bxg6+ and black has no defense.
Feb-01-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthegenius> So you mean 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 3.Nxe5 Qe7 4.Be2?? Qxe5 ?! That may be okay for a genius, but it's not a line I would recommend to the general public.
Feb-04-05  Jaymthegenius: After 5.Be2 in this game 5...hxg6 6.Qxh8 wins for white,
Feb-04-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthefool> After 5.Be2.. in this game the suggested move 5... hxg6 is impossible. 5... Qxe5 might be an improvement.
Feb-05-05  Jaymthegenius: It is NOT impossible! and I meant 6.Be2,hxg6
Feb-05-05  sneaky pete: <Jaymthefool> How can anyone not a genius understand you mean 6.Be2 hxg6 if you post 4.Be2?? d6?? first and 5.Be2?? .. followed by an impossible move next? After 6.Be2 .. (clearly white's only move in this position) play may continue 6... Nf6 7.Qh3 hxg6! 8.Qxh8 Qxg2 9.Rf1 Kf7 when black has sufficient compensation for the exchange. Theory suggests 10.Qh4 .. gives white the advantage, but after 10... Nc6 black went on to win in 37 moves in the game Readers Het Parool (Dutch newspaper) vs Lodewijk Prins, correspondence 1953.
Feb-05-05  aw1988: I believe the best move is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f5 3. Nxe5 Qe7 4. Nc4!.
Feb-07-05  Jaymthegenius: The best reply by white in the latvian is 1.e4,e5 2.Nf3,f5 3.d4! This refutes the latvian outright. Because it is like the falkbeer countergambit, but with a developed knight!
Feb-08-05  misguidedaggression: That developed knight can be a problem... for example in the falkbeer 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.fxe5? loses to Qh4+. In your line 3...fxe4 is now perfectly playable, as it forces the knight to move with tempo and allows black the time to play Nf6 stopping Qh5+.
Premium Chessgames Member
  InspiredByMorphy: <Jayme> After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f5 3. d4 black gets a solid position with fxe4 4. Nxe5 Nf6 . The Latvian gambit is far from refuted.
Feb-28-05  Jaymthegenius: Eric Schiller in Unorthodox Chess Openings has said that the Latvian Gambit is unsound, and I have to agree, black is far worse off in the endgame, often being down two pawns.
Feb-28-05  azaris: Well if Jay and Eric Schiller say something is true then how can anyone disagree.
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