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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| Feb-15-04 |
| Lawrence: pogo5, all 5 engines show that White is ahead but if Junior 8 is correct and the advantage is only +1.21 I'll bet Black would play on because there's many a slip ´twixt the cup and the lip, and the game isn't over until the fat lady etc., and never give up the ship, and today's Quote of the Day is "No one ever won a game by resigning." |
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| Feb-15-04 |
| karlzen: You're right that it was a better option Lawrence, but I'm afraid the advantage is a lot bigger than just +1.21 that your computer gives. White has a piece for a pawn and the better position, the advantage must be almost three pawn units. Following pogo5's line: 30.Nf5 Bg6 (otherwise Rc3 will be pinned due to the pressure on g7) 31.Re3! Rc7 32.Qe5 Qc5 33.Re2 b5 (what else?) 34.Nd4 and black is all tied up waiting for the kill. 34.Nxg7!! is even stronger as Rxg7 fails on account of Qb8+ and soon Qe6# mate. |
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Feb-15-04
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| Wade Keller: I assume there is a simple reason why 25. Qxb2 is not valid. |
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| Feb-15-04 |
| catfriend: Yep. 25. : b2? :b2+ 26. :b2 b: c6 |
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Feb-15-04
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| kevin86: Another theme on the pin! Brilliant play by white-but probably elementary to Watson-HA HA!! |
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| Feb-15-04 |
| Lawrence: karlzen, looks as if Hiarcs's evaluation is more realistic then. Why don't you kibitz more often, you seem to have some very good ideas. |
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Feb-15-04
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| crafty: 25. xb2 xd4 26. 6e3 fc6 27.  f5 xc3+ 28. b1 xe3  (eval -0.98; depth 14 ply; 500M nodes) |
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| Feb-15-04 |
| mack: How about...
25. Re8+ Bxe8
26. Rxe8+ winning either rook or queen?
Sorry, haven't thought this through fantastically. |
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Feb-15-04
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| Doctor Who: No need to lose the queen there, mack: 25. Re8+ Bxe8 26. Rxe8+ Rf8 |
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Feb-15-04
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| patzer2: After <Lawrence>'s suggestion of 26...Qa3, Fritz 8 validates most of <Pogo5>'s and <Lawrence>'s analysis, but varies with 29...Bf7 30. Re7. Black is still losing, but has some slim hope of swindling a draw (wasn't it Yogi Bera who said "it's not over till it's over"). Friz 8's analysis goes 26...Qa3 27. Ne7+ 27.Ne7+ Kf8 28.Qxb2 Rxc3+ 29.Bc2 Qa5 30.Nf5 Bf7 (Fritz 8 rates this slightly better than 30...Bg6 Re5!) 31. Re7 b6 32. Rb7 Qc5 33. Rb8+ Be8 34. Kd2 d4 35. Nxg7 Kxg7 36. Rxe8 Rf3 37. Re5 Rf2+ (+2.41 @ 15/45 depth & 682kN/s). At this point, Black is "grasping at straws" but still has a "glimmer of hope" that his "last ditch effort" to salvage a draw might succeed. So, I ran Fritz 8 again. The third deep analysis continues 38. Kd1 Qc4 <not 38...Rf1+? 39. Ke2! Qc4+? Bd3> 39. Qb3 b5 40. Bd3 Qxb3+ 41. axb3 Rxh2 42. Re7+ Kg8 43. Ra7 Rg2 44. Rxa6 b4 45. Ra8+ (+3.34 @ 16/57 depth & 705kN/s). It's still "not a done deal." So a fourth analysis continues 43...Rg2 Bxh7+ 44. Bxh7+ Kf8 45. b4 Rxg3 46. f5 Rg7 47. Ra8+ Kf7 48. Bg6+ Kf6 49. Rxa6+ Kg5 50. Rd6 Ra7 51. Rxd4 (+4.12 @ 17 depth & 766kN/s) and Now Black can resign since he "doesn't stand a chance," "it's all over but the shouting" and "the fat lady is starting to sing" http://www.clichesite.com |
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| Feb-15-04 |
| Lawrence: patzer2, thanks for those deep analyses. I love that expression one sees sometimes "against best play" because I'm sure that none of us are ever going to experience it. Black or White--or both--are surely going to go astray somewhere bringing a sudden end to the game or new life to it. |
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Feb-15-04
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| talchess2003: hehe, I haven't been on this site for awhile.. and is it just me or have these puzzles gotten harder? This one took me, embarassingly, nearly 10 minutes... after I had thought a lot on my first impulse, Nc6... When I last remember logging onto this site it took only a glance. Or maybe it just returns to my old theory, that the difficulty of the puzzles increases as the week winds down. |
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| Feb-16-04 |
| Lawrence: talchess2003, yes, chessgames announced recently that the one on Sundays is going to be a real stinker. |
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| Feb-16-04 |
| catfriend: Maybe tired of our non-stop crying "that's" too easy:) |
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| Feb-16-04 |
| karlzen: <Lawrence>, I just recently started kibitz and am planning to do so all life from now on, so don't worry! ;) Yes <Wade Keller>, 25.Qxb2 is not good. 24.Qxb2 is very good though and that's precisely what I said in the first place. Now, find a simple reason! :) |
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| Feb-16-04 |
| karlzen: First of all, these people playing this game are rated above 2500 and I'm sure at least one of them is a GM, so analysing endgames with a piece down for nothing is really unnecessary before resigning a game. Anyway I will provide som further fruit to the matter. <patzer2>, while there's nothing wrong with your idea of 31.Re7 I think a GM would more likely play the simpler 31.Re3 utilising the pin due to the threat of Qxg7+. 31...d4 is well answered by 32.Re5 b5 33.Nxd4 Bxa2 34.Nxf5 Bb3 35.Nd6!! threating mate 35...Bf7 36.Rf5 with a simple finish. Sometimes it is useful looking at more lines than just Fritz favourite one! Use simple, basic positional ideas and understanding and I'm sure you could find that (in your line above) 43.Bxh7+ would be even simpler than Ra7 as black can't respond Rxh7 due to the connected passed pawns on the kingside. The white king will just nick all the burglers at the queenside and it'll be all over even though it's not over. If black instead replies 43...Kf8 44.Ra7 Rg2 then white simply push his f-pawn and black's king can only wait and see what happens next on his, only allowed, back rank. Pawns are not so important when it comes to queening! After f6-f7, Bg8 and Ra8+ winning. |
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Feb-16-04
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| patzer2: <Karlzen> Excellent suggestions! I generally like to go with Fritz's best suggestions, as I tend to learn new combinations when Fritz 8 complicates matters. However, you are correct that when given a choice between a simple win and a complex win, it is always better to take the most direct route. Complicating, especially under time controls, can backfire. |
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| Feb-17-04 |
| karlzen: Thanks. :) Learning tactics with Fritz is a good idea as long as you actually think on your own and not let the silicon monster do all the fun! Never forget positional chess though, it's the key to finding combinations in the first place. |
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Feb-17-04
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| patzer2: Great advice!:) When I first started playing, I thought positional chess was what you played when you couldn't find a combination (or didn't have a clue what to play). I now realize winning combinations are the result of good positional play. I also think it helps to think of tactics as a specific category of positional play as opposed to being a separate and distinct aspect of the game. IM Jeremy Silman's "How to Reassess Your Chess" is an excellent read on positional play. |
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| Feb-19-04 |
| karlzen: I agree with everything that you said, cheers. |
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| Jun-02-04 |
| Whitehat1963: Fascinating game from the player of the day! |
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| Jul-06-05 |
| halcyonteam: A mere difference in TEMPO |
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| Jan-14-08 |
| D.Observer: Good swindle. |
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Sep-01-08
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| sallom89: 25.Rc6 is awesome! |
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| Mar-11-09 |
| WhiteRook48: 25 Rc6!! is such a swindle. |
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