< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
|Jun-17-12|| ||Mladja: I would play safe 25.Bh7+.|
|Jun-17-12|| ||sevenseaman: The text deviated when Black uses a respite to give the effete 26. Nd3+. The game goes into a slightly different tailspin but the tale spins to a similar conclusion.|
One unseemly error in my sub-line at 31...Kg8.
35. Qh7# is wrong. It needed to be 35. Qh7+ and mate soon. Here;
|Jun-17-12|| ||vinidivici: damn, i thought about 25.Nc6...a bit mistake.|
|Jun-17-12|| ||vinidivici: hey,how about black respond is 25...Rcxc6|
|Jun-17-12|| ||chrisowen: <vinidivici> A tinge what a lark see heavy toll ahh interference on the cfile since midfield is jammed up edict release the bind on nd4 entree prise away it horde in c6 lever age <25.nc6 rxc6 26.rxc6 rxc6 27.qxd5+ bf7 28.re8+> cute net exposing d5 to drum forge the ty it sacrelige modicum a nb2 screwdriver!|
|Jun-17-12|| ||chrisowen: Stangls curve ball queen too soon fetching time it b4 queen true essential to get her traded e6 first change up rookxe6 then speculate am in b4 eye white till ruddy darn complicated stitchings us in tenant it nc6 in devious again got him lowdown in channel squeeze braving a3 method could invigorate him to material quality ram one rc3 and why level it almost i guess drop in e1 like the cat came back queen a5 there William flow in chest queen d5 rifle gunning for c6 effectively over aint it off an tack up and coming french?|
|Jun-17-12|| ||paulalbert: Got on the wrong track trying to divert R on c8 by Re8ch.|
|Jun-17-12|| ||Calli: "Been in this game one-hundred years, but I see new ways to lose 'em I never knew existed before" - Stengel|
|Jun-17-12|| ||tivrfoa: 25. Rc6! is beautiful.|
|Jun-17-12|| ||Zatrikion: White should exploit the fact that Black queen is dependent on the semi-open c file, controlled by the R on c8. So:
(25..bxc6, 26.cxb4) or
(25..Qxc3+, 26.Qxc3 Rxc6, 27.Rxc6 Rxc6, 28.Qxc6 bxc6, 29.Kxb2) or
(25..Qb(c)5, 26.Rxf6 gxf6, 27.Ne7+ Kf7, 28.Nxc8)
27.Qxd5+ (with mate in few moves)
Time to check if this is correct this time...
|Jun-17-12|| ||gaurav33: Wow,never think in this way.First i thought Re8+ ,but soon realize it will not work.Really today's puzzle was very difficult.|
|Jun-17-12|| ||vinidivici: hey,how about black respond is 25...Rcxc6 ???
<chrisowen> <A tinge what a lark see heavy toll ahh interference on the cfile since midfield is jammed up edict release the bind on nd4 entree prise away it horde in c6 lever age <25.nc6 rxc6 26.rxc6 rxc6 27.qxd5+ bf7 28.re8+> cute net exposing d5 to drum forge the ty it sacrelige modicum a nb2 screwdriver!>
Dude, what did you say? i dont understand a word? And your proposed line is a mess. I really dont understand anything about what u were trying to say.
|Jun-17-12|| ||chrisowen: <vinidivici> Another it draw in c6 loose tempo sit i on a3 i |
reckoning point ment rookc6 lo versatile in theory it wind up in
lost it he in c8 c6 instead knight omit down in qua3 kerb slide
rookf6+ in level it take in king and i flipflop rookc3 you stint it
a nasty discovered check at e1 queen tempt in from it's candid in
expanse <28.qxb2 rxc3+ 29.bc2 qa5 30.qxb7> and knightd5 NT or qued5
black should hold for chance in get it going one rally in?
|Jun-17-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: No solution submitted.
6/7 for the week with a pass!
|Jun-17-12|| ||DarthStapler: I didn't get it|
|Jun-17-12|| ||emate: I had in mind a totally different solution:
how about 25 Re8 ?
I figured that if black captures with his rook: 25 ... R:e8 then white wins blacks queen, and if 25 ... B:e8 26 R:e8 and again black can't capture with his rook, and 26 ... Kf7 just looses the exchange with 27 R:c8.
Am I missing anything? I guess the moves that were played are stronger, but the tactic of 25 Re8 wins too.
|Jun-17-12|| ||Mendrys: Wow, 25. Rc6 isn't a move that easily comes to mind, unless you know precisely what to look for, which I didn't. |
The key to the combination is blacks weak d5 square which white can occupy with check. If the black king were on say f1 instead of g1 then the the best white can do is take the knight with 25. Qxb2 where black can just reply 25...Qxd4.
|Jun-17-12|| ||Mendrys: <emate> I think black can just reply 26...Rf8 and stymie white by something like 27. Rxc8 Rxc8 28. Ne2 Na4 and now black is up the exchange. |
click for larger view
|Jun-17-12|| ||Marmot PFL: White has some problems with his king safety in this position. It looks like he needs to put something on c6 to block the Rc8 and thus threaten cxb4. |
25 Nc6 looks tempting but black can play Qa3 with his own threats. After 26 Qxb2 and trading it looks about even.
25 Rc6 is more forcing as Rxc8+ is threatened. After 25...Rfxc6 26 Nxc6 white has the added threat Qxd5+, 25...Rxc6 26 Qxd5+ Kf8 (Bf7 Re8+) 27 Qd8+ Kf7 28 Qe8+ Kf6 29 Qxc6+ and cb4 wins the queen. However if black does not take this knight he is threatened with not only cb4 and Qxb2 but also Ne7+, so this looks winning for white.
|Jun-17-12|| ||scormus: Sigh, didnt get 25 Rc6. How can such a natural move be so hard to see as winning?|
3 f3. I never realised it was ever played at master level, let alone had a name. But I like the diagonal string ... RppppppR
|Jun-17-12|| ||rilkefan: For what it's worth, stockfish evaluates Nc6 as +1.3 at a depth of 25: ...Qa3 26.Ne7+ Kf7 27.Rxf6+ gxf6 28.Qxb2 Rxc3 29.Bc2 Qa5 30.Nxd5. Rc6 is +4 or so.|
|Jun-17-12|| ||TheBish: Wow, that's incredibly deep! I thought I did pretty well (close but no cigar with 25. Nc6), but I didn't even consider 25. Rc6 for some reason. I think that's one of my weaknesses, analyzing a few lines fairly deeply, but not considering enough candidate moves.|
Both moves result in similar positions, but the difference is the position after 25. Nc6 Qa3 (which I didn't consider) 26. Ne7+ Kf7 27. Rxf6+ gxf6 28. Qxb2 Rxc3+ 29. Bc2 Qa5!
click for larger view
...is that White can't play 30. Re5 (in the other line the f6 pawn is back on g7), and White can't save both his knight and rook (30. Nf5 Rxc2+ 31. Qxc2 Qxe1). My mistake was failing to analyze 25. Nc6 Qa3!.
Having said all that, Fritz says White is still winning (from the diagram position) after 30. Qxb7! Rxc2+ 31. Kxc2 Qxe1 32. Nxd5+ Kf8 (best) 33. Qb4+!, trading queens and winning the endgame anyway as White will win the a-pawn and go two pawns up.
|Jun-17-12|| ||TheBish: W Watson vs M Stangl, 1998|
White to play (25.?) "Insane"
(Forgot to post this before my follow-up post above! It will make more sense after reading this.)
Material is even, but Black is threatening ...Rxc3+. After 25. Qxb2 Qxd4! (not 25...Rxc3+ 26. Nc2). One thing to look for is a way to deflect Black's Rc8, but if 25. Re8+ Bxe8 26. Rxe8+ Rff8! and White has just given away a rook. But there is another, much harder to see (hence "insane") way to interfere with the Rc8.
25. Nc6! Rxc6
Forced; if 25...bxc6 26. cxb4. Otherwise, White continues 26. Ne7+.
26. Rxc6 Rxc6
Otherwise, White wins the Exchange.
27. Qxd5+ Kf8
Not 27...Kh8?? 28. Qd8+ and mates, or 27...Bf7? 28. Re8+ Qf8 29. Rxf8+ Kxf8 30. Kxb2, winning the queen for a rook. Now not 28. Qxc6? Nd3+! 29. Bxd3 (or 29. Kd2 Qb2+) Qa3+ 30. Kb1 bxc6 and wins for Black.
28. Qd8+ Kf7 29. Qe8+ Kf6 30. Qxc6+! bxc6 31. cxb4 Nc4 32. Re6 and White has won the Exchange and will mop up in the endgame.
I would say the difficulty level is justified; this was a mental workout, even if I missed something!
|Jun-17-12|| ||Shams: <scormus> <3 f3. I never realised it was ever played at master level, let alone had a name.>|
More than one, actually-- it's also called the "Fantasy Variation". As near as I can tell, that's because any notion that White can use it to gain an advantage, is pure fantasy.
|Jun-17-12|| ||sevenseaman: 25. Rc6 and the idea behind it is a rare combination. It is an absolutely logical move but will not occur easily. The thought came to my mind when I read <scormus>'s <Sigh, didnt get 25 Rc6. How can such a natural move be so hard to see as winning?>|
Obviously Nc6 is the more natural move that easily occurs. But this latter move carries an intrinsic flaw; it provides Black with a tactically dangerous option.
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