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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Feb-25-12
 | | morfishine: <Bonifratz> Looks like blacks position is so strong, either 24...Ng4 or your <24...Qxd6> are completely winning |
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Feb-25-12
 | | Once: <sevenseaman> There's very little in it. Both 26. Bxf7 and 26. Qxf3 evaluate around -1.9. After around 5 minutes, Fritzie marginally prefers 26. Bxf7, but only by 0.09 of a pawn. Another couple of minutes of silicon chewing and we get to a difference of about 0.18 - 26. Bxf7 currently stands at -1.86 and 26. Qxf3 is at -2.02. Frankly I don't trust his strategic algorithms to that level of accuracy. To all intents and purposes both moves are equally losing for white. All other moves for white at 26 eval at over -6. |
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| Feb-25-12 | | goldenbear: Doesn't Ne4 also win? That's the move I had... Of course, if I had thought a little longer it would have been obvious that Ng4 was stronger than Ne4, but I still don't see a refutation of Ne4. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | chrisowen: <viking78> Have we got clues as why rd6 over f3 grateful for goodfeed back! I feared queens fit and rites of passage it her trade also 24...rde8 25.rxd7 nxd7 26.qxc6+ bxc6 27.bxf2 re2 with penetration pawn down yet active second it. Black gets rid of DSB on h2 castles long old time style prises open h-file surges epawn forward cutting black knight f3 has nowhere but suffer it of be impaled by e4 seems hardly fair poor Alexander just got outdone!
Never fear meld queens on board surely there is hope for salvation i would take pawn if i were Lastin rd6 fume this allows black time for ng4 and free his bishop d7 to join the fray play goes 24...ng4 25.Rxc6+ Bxc6 black emerges exchange up and a pawn to boot. |
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| Feb-25-12 | | goldenbear: Oh nevermind... the rook takes with check. How stupid of me. |
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| Feb-25-12 | | Jason Frost: <Bonifratz: I'm surprised that nobody seems to have talked about the possibility of <24... Qxd6> (which was my candidate) ...>
You might be right that 24...Qxd6 also wins, but it needlessly drops a tempo and, at least, massively complicates the position. After <24...Qxd6 25. Bxd6 Bc6> white has a choice of <26. Qd4>
<26. Qb6>
<26. Be7>
<26. Bd5>
etc...
All of which have to be calculated to really validate <24...Qxd6> as a solution. |
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| Feb-25-12 | | Penguincw: Nice. It looks like black is about to lose, but a counter-attack did the trick. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | Patriot: Black is up a pawn.
White threatens 25.Rxc6+ or 25.Qxf3.
24...Qxd6 25.Bxd6 Bc6 threatens to at least win the exchange with 26...Ng4. 26.Qc5 f2+ 27.Kxf2 Ne4+ followed by 28...Nxc5 wins a rook. 26.Qh2 Ng4 27.Qxh8 Rxh8 at least gives material back. 26.Qb6 f2+ 27.Kxf2 Ne4+ 28.Ke1 Nxd6 looks a little unclear but probably winning. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | David2009: A Lastin vs Bareev, 2004 Black 24...? Black appears to be on the receiving end of a very strong attack, but has the 'shot' 24...Ng5 which appears to win the exchange. Main variation: 25.Rxc6+ Bxc6 26.Qb6?? f2+ forces mate, so White has to
surrender material, e.g. 26.Qxf3 Bxf3 27.Rxf3 with a hard struggle in prospect. The BB pair compensate for the slight material deficit, I expect a draw but either side might win if mistakes are made. Time to
check:
====
Well, I was wrong about the draw but seem to have found the main idea. Here's the puzzle position colours reversed
click for larger view (A Lastin vs Bareev, 2004 24...? colours reversed)
together with a link to Crafty Endgame Simulator: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... The
ES plays the defence I have anticipated. Time to go back to the garden and digest the kibitzes later. Playing this endgame out without the help of an engine will require determination and skill. Meanwhile, here's a link to the pre-puzzle position with normal colours to see how the ES tackles the problem:
click for larger view (A Lastin vs Bareev, 2004 just before White plays 24.Rd6). Interactive link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... Enjoy exploring the variations with either engine! |
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| Feb-25-12 | | harish22: Great move and a beautiful wild position.
However this is not difficult at all. since one can easily see the that when the h1-a8 diagonal clears Rh8 is mate. Ng4 comes with a tempo. The only thing to worry about is that Rc6 was a check. However the queen gets replaced by a Bishop and the mate threat persists. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | kevin86: A good ending-black allows the queen to be captured with check...but white's cannot run away,so black picks up the exchange. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | Marmot PFL: I found this easier than yesterday, in fact 24...Ng4 was the first move I looked at. No mate can be forced, but the threats win material, and nothing else I looked at seemed to work. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | JohnBoy: <Patriot: 24...Qxd6 25.Bxd6 Bc6> - try <David>'s link. 26.Be7 seems to secure an even endgame. |
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Feb-25-12
| | JohnBoy: In revision of my above posting, the endgame is not even. Black is a pawn up and can keep the pawn with substantial winning chances after 26...Ng4 27.Bd8 Nf2 28.Kf2 Rh2+ 29.Ke3 Re2+ 30.Kd3 Kd8 31.Bf7 Rg2 - but this is definitely not as easy as the direct 26...Ng4. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | Jimfromprovidence: The unsung hero of this position is the f7 pawn as the position after 25 Bxc6 shows us.
click for larger view White deperately wants to play 26 Be6+, winning the knight, but he has to take the f pawn first. Then it's too late. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | hms123: <<Announcement of Rinus Award>> We typically try to make an award four times a year. In general, first priority for a <Rinus Award> goes to a non-premium member who makes an excellent contribution to one of the <World vs. GM> games hosted by <chessgames.com>. When there is a break between games, the committee has made an award to someone on another part of the website who has made excellent contributions in that area (e.g., <ChessBookForum>, POTD page). At this point in the year, it looks to us as though there will be a long break between games. In addition, among the many superb nominations made by the POTD folks, two nominees stood out. Not only did both nominees make consistent, excellent analytic contributions, they also represented the best of <chessgames.com> in their conduct and in their contributions to the creation of a healthy atmosphere at <chessgames.com>. As we were reading through the posts over the last 60 games (which, by the way, was slow-going only because we kept getting distracted by <Once’s> always-entertaining posts), we ran across this interchange between the two nominees (starting about here: L Shamkovich vs G Lebredo, 1978) that showed how a disagreement and misunderstanding can be settled amicably and with civility and respect all around. We found this conversation to be so refreshing that we decided to make awards to both non-premium members. It is with great pleasure that User: WinKing User: kutztown46 and I announce that both User: sevenseaman and User: LoveThatJoker will be receiving <Rinus Awards> of year-long premium memberships as soon as they are activated. I have already notified the chessgames.com administrators. Our thanks go to all of you who are regulars at the POTD pages. You set a terrific example of what a chess community should be like. |
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| Feb-25-12 | | BOSTER: Many theoreticians believe that doubled pawn (like f3 and f7) are completely useless. But sometimes even the single pawn like a single person has <pride and dignity>. By the sacr. the queen black pawn on f3 with the rook h8 and bishop on c6 can together capture the white king in some <silly> variations. Couple lines:
24...Ng4
if 25.Rxc6 Bxc6
26.Qb6 f2+
27.Rxf2 Rh1#
if 25.Qxf3 Qxf3
26.Rxf3 Bc6
27.Rxc6+ bxc6
28.Bxf7 Rd1
29.Rf1 Rxf1+ and black has not too much .
if 25.Rxc6 Bxc6
26.Qxf3 Bxf3
27.Rxf3 Rd1+
28.Rf1 and black has not too much. |
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Feb-25-12
| | Once: Hearty congratulations to both <sevenseaman> and <Lovethatjoker>. You are both very well deserved recipients of the Rinus Award. Thanks from all of us for your excellent posts, insightful analysis, good friendship and wit. We look forward to many more, and to jawing with you in your very own forums, fora, fori, forata, whatever. Latin never was my strong point. Now the crucial question has to to be ... what avatars are you going to choose? Something suitably nautical for <sevenseaman> and dark knightish for <lovethatjoker>? Or have I misunderstood your handles? Thanks also to <hms123>, <WinKing> and <kutztown46> for exercising the wisdom of Solomon. |
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Feb-25-12
 | | scormus: <Jim .... the f7 pawn> <Once> again, you hit the nail directly on the head. I thought at first I had got this weekend puzzle straight off, in less than a minute. But I hadnt seen the key point you <hit> upon. <Once .... Hearty congratulations to both <sevenseaman> and <Lovethatjoker>>
I'd gladly second that! Every day excellent contributions |
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Feb-25-12
| | morfishine: Congratulations <sevenseaman> and <LoveThatJoker> on winning the Rinus award! Well deserved! I much enjoy your posts and look forward to more! |
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| Feb-25-12 | | BOSTER: The line 24...Ng4 25.Qxf3 is wrong, because of 25...Qc5+. |
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| Feb-25-12 | | LoveThatJoker: <morfishine, scormus, Once, hms123, Memethecat> I want to thank you most sincerely for the congratulations, the support and the comraderie. Thank you very much for the award!
It means a lot to me and I cherish it.
Sincerely,
LTJ |
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Feb-25-12
| | Once: <LoveThatJoker> You are most welcome. Next you need to open your forum. Think of it like Rick's bar in Casablanca. And you are the suave host in the white jacket. I might pop by some time, looking for a permit to travel. And maybe you'll ask Sam to play "as time goes by" |
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| Feb-25-12 | | LoveThatJoker: <Once> I love Casablanca, man! By the way, don't swing by looking for a travel permit! Come so as to drink some Scotch and play a few blitz games! LTJ |
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Feb-25-12
 | | WinKing: lol...Love the choice of your avatar <LoveThatJoker> - Congratulations!!! Your accurate analysis of the problems & the keenness of your wit make you very deserving of the coveted Rinus Award. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 17...e5