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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Mar-14-13
 | | FSR: Hmm, OK, Black's 26...Qg5 was a better defense than the one I gave. A valiant defensive effort by Black at the end, but Q+B v. RR is still a mismatch. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | M.Hassan: "Medium"
White to play 25.?
Equal materials
25.Rxf6 gxf6
26.Rd3 Qg5
27.Rg3
Queen will be lost at least for a Rook
1-0 |
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| Mar-14-13 | | sfm: <syracrophy: Black's is in an awesomely zugzwang position after the move 39.Qf2!!> Well, in Genuine Zugzwang [TM] the player must be able to hold (or win) if not forced to move. But even if White was to move here, the main threat, Qa7+, would be crushing anyway. Also, 39.-,f5 does not make it worse for black than it already is. But sure, the position is clearly zugzwangish, as almost all moves make it worse. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | agb2002: White has a bishop for a knight.
Black threatens the pawn on c3.
White can weaken the black castle seriously with 25.Rxf6: A) 25... gxf6 26.Rd3
A.1) 26... Qe1+ 27.Kb2
A.1.a) 27... Qh4 28.Rg3+ Kh8 29.Rg4 Qxg4 (29... Qxh2 30.Qxf6+ Kh7 31.Qg7#) 30.Qxg4 + - [Q+B vs 2R]. A.1.b) 27... Qe5 28.Qg6+ Kh8 29.Qxh6+ Kg8 30.Qg6+ and mate in two. A.2) 26... Qg1+ 27.Kb2 Qxh2 28.Qg6+ Kh8 29.Qxf6+
A.2.a) 29... Kg8 30.Rh3 Qxg2 31.Rxh6 Qg7 32.Rg6 Qxg6 33.Qxg6+ Kh8 34.Bxf7 Rxf7 35.Qxf7 + - [Q+P vs R]. A.2.b) 29... Kh7 30.Rh3 Qxh3 31.gxh3 wins as in A.2.a since the pawn on f7 is lost: 31... Kg8 32.Qg6+, etc. A.3) 26... Qxd3 27.cxd3 + - [Q+B vs 2R].
B) 25... Qe2 26.Rd3 looks similar to A. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | amateur05: Saw it instantly (Rxf6 gxf6 Rd3) |
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| Mar-14-13 | | morfishine: The most important Question to ask in a position like this is "How do you pronounce the player's names?" Irregardless, Back can't hardly stop White's attack due to the preponderance of force; 25.Rxf6 is threatened and difficult to parry. <25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Rd4> Targeting <g4>, which cannot be adequately defended; The threat 27.Rg4+ is decisive; 26.Rd3 threatening 27.Rg3+ doesn't look quite as good due to 26...Qg1+ 27.Kb2 Qxh2 (preventing 28.Rg3+); If now 28.Rh3, then 28...Qxg2 29.Rxh6 Qg7 30.Rh4 and by roundabout means, White ends up using <g4> anyways to win the Black Queen Also, 26...h5 fails to 27.Qxh5 renewing the threat; Since Black will be forced to surrender Queen for rook, he might as well grab as much material as possible: <26...Qg1+ 27.Kb2 Qxg2 28.Rg4+ Qxg4 29.Qxg4+ Kh7 30.Qd7> 
click for larger view**********
PM: I wonder which is considered stronger: 26.Rd3 vs 26.Rd4? IMO, the point behind 26.Rd4 is with the White Queen on <f5> the rook coordinates better with the Queen via <g4> |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Bobby Fiske: Well, this position has "sac me" written all over it.
After Rxf6, there comes a rook lift with mate threat in g-file. Then the black queen must give up her life and the rest should be a matter of technique of which I am not a master of. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | mistreaver: Thursday. White to play. Medium.25?
The move i automatically wanted to make was:
25 Rxf6 gxf6 (no particural choice, since everything else leaves white piece up).
26 Re3 gaining tempo to transfer the rook to g file)
26... Qb6 (Queen has to defend f6 pawn,Qg5 succumbs to Rg3)
And now first i looked at the following line:
A)
27 Rg3+ Kh8
28 Qh5 f5 and black manages to defend
Then i tried
B)
27 Rh3 Kg7 and white has nothing better but to repeat the moves and defend again.
It seems that problem with these lines is that they never include the b3 bishop into play.
After writing this, the solution came by itself.
C)
27 Qg6+ Kh8
28 Qxh6+ Kg8
29 Rg3+ and black gets killed.
Time to check.
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Ok, i think i can claim the point for this. I missed Qg1+ with Qxg2, but it still wins pretty easily, white has multiple choice to win, after
27 ... Qxh2
28 Qg6+ Kh8
29 Qf6+ Kg8 (Kh7 30 Bxf7  )
white can choose between Rh3, Rd7 and g4 as winning continuations.
3.5/4 so far |
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| Mar-14-13 | | James D Flynn: Material is equal but the White bishop is menacing the f7 pawn and the Black K’s position can be broken open by 25.Rxf6.
25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Qg6+ Kh8 27.Qxf6+ Kg8 28.Rd7 Qe8(Black must defend the f7 pawn if Qg5 29.Bxf7+ Kh7 30.Bg6+ Kg8 31.Bh7#) 29.Qg6+ Kh8 30.Qxh6+ Kg8 31.Qg5+ Kh7(if Kh8 32.Re7 Qd8 33.Qh6+ Kg8 34.Qg6+ Kh8 35.Bxf7 Rxf7 36.Rxf7 Qg8 37.Qh6+ Qh7 38.Rxh7# )32.Re7 Qd8 33.Bxf7 Qxe7 34.Qg6+ Kh8 Qh6# |
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| Mar-14-13 | | snakebyt: I chose b2xf7 f8xf7 then d6 d8+ which, after second thought, was not the best choice. Leaving blk Queen to defend breaks down my plan. |
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Mar-14-13
 | | LIFE Master AJ: I got the first few moves, (25.Rxf6! through 27.Rg3), but my line (after White's 27th move); was probably not as accurate as "Chewbie's" continuation here. |
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Mar-14-13
| | LIFE Master AJ: This is a sharp line, I have played the first 13 moves a few times myself. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | kevin86: I knew a sacrifice was in the offing,but not sure it was the exchange or pawn. White wins the queen and ends up with a queen and piece for two rooks,about the same as being a piece ahead. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | dark.horse: I tried to get 26.Qg6+ to work, but couldn't. |
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Mar-14-13
 | | chrisowen: A knight sac effectively duffed across see feed,
at infer 25.Rxf6 of course it is king in g8 oh you knight as in heff a lump in token f6 light of fancy, 25...gxf6 lowing like a beauty at why again do it her in seems it double in dig 23...nf6 looks to be suspect re now 23...qf6 instead rook jumped the queue log you in evermore bus to read 24.r7d6 Qe3 combination kick off rook one diffuse light nordic glide rook see feel, in d3 or d4 cutter the dutifuls tuff in bargain you wish b3 one for f7 either adamant it now in l0 bemused eres tow in freeze 26.rd3 braving also mind good have in goggle 26.rd4 the point behind que3 as you in have my forte am included at engage off load up elicit yin yang lesson it picking in patch ad whicker f5, wind in feckled chains mitigate flown the nest in g5 back to knight 26...qg5 the reaper charge in no time like at serving 27.rg3 pins having clean in give rook redouble my effort reference ogle haze, rooks too v queen bishop big bertha guess queen claw rook back aint over till the queen defeated rookd4 qg1+ lady sing success for a brief la, gaining 27.Kb2 whence la stipple 27...Qxg2 28.rg4+ duck in a spark of elect ronde nice in circle op at rack in g4+ knight off in regale go cast le sac f6! |
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| Mar-14-13 | | James D Flynn: When I took a look at other posts I thought I ahd been transported back in time because the first 2 were from July 2004. When I looked at earlier Kibitzing they were all from back then and Sneaky gave 25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Qg6+ Kh7 as White has nothing. Sneaky was not quite correct because White has draw by perpetual but 26.... Kh7 is the best defense. I thought I had a win by 25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Qg6+ Kh7 28.Bxf7 Qg5 29.Bg6+ Kg8(not Qxg6 30.Rd7+ Kg8 (or R7 31.Rxf7+ Kg8 32.Qxg6+) 31.Qxg6+) 31.Qe6+ Kh8 32.Rd7 Rf1+ 33.Kb2 Qc1+ 34.Kg3 Qb1+ 35.Ka3(not Kh4 Rf4+ 36.Be4 Qxc2+ 37.Ka5 Qxc3+ 38.Kb6 Qb4+ 39.Kc7 Qc5+ 40.Bc6 Qxc6+ 41.Qxc6 bxc6 and Black is a R up in the endgame) and the dual threats of Rh7# and Qxh6+ then Qg7# force Black to take the perpetau8l by Qc1+ 36.Kb3. White could try 32.h4 Qf6 33.Qxf6 Rxf6 34.h5 and I judge the endgame as slightly better for White with his 2 extra pawns more than enough for Black's advantage of the exchange but the win of the Q for a R as in the game is certainly a far better alternative. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | TechnoGuyRob: Why not 14. fxe5? Doesn't this just win a piece? |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Shams: <Rob> 14.fxe5 Rfd8 and Black looks fine. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Patriot: Material is even (I think!).
25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Qg6+ Kh8 27.Qxf6+
27...Kg8 28.Rd3 Qg1+ 29.Kb2 Qxh2 30.Rh3
27...Kh7 28.Bxf7 Qg5 29.Bg6+ Qxg6 30.Rd7+
27...Kh7 28.Bxf7 Qg5 29.Bg6+ Kg8 30.Qe6+ Kh8 31.Rd7 Rf1+ 32.Kb2 Qb5+ and it looks like white is in trouble. I wonder if there is anything better.
25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Rd3 Qe5 27.Qg6+ Kh8 28.Qxh6+ Kg8 29.Rg3+ 25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Rd3 Qg1+ 27.Kb2 Qxh2 28.Qg6+ Kh8 29.Qxf6+ followed by 30.Rh3 I think 25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Rd3 is best. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Patriot: In my line <27...Kh7 28.Bxf7 Qg5 29.Bg6+ Kg8 30.Qe6+ Kh8 31.Rd7 Rf1+ 32.Kb2 Qb5+ and it looks like white is in trouble>, this is a draw. Black wins with 31...Qb5+. This was really tough for me.
<morf> According to Houdini, you are absolutely correct--26.Rd4 is best! |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Diademas: The black Queen is en prise for six moves before being taken. Without any checks to the king.
Might that be some kind of record? I better check with Krabbe... |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Diademas: Krabbe does not have anything on that. |
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Mar-14-13
 | | Phony Benoni: <Diademas> See also Mieses vs Janowski, 1900. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Diademas: Thank you <Phony Benoni>. |
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| Mar-14-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Diademas: The black Queen is en prise for six moves before being taken. Without any checks to the king. Might that be some kind of record?> Is this really so uncommon?
Even in blitz, I've seen this kind of jockeying for tempo or position; it is the mark of players stubbornly resolved to eke every iota of advantage, and as we see in this game, it can sometimes make a substantial structural difference. I'm not sure this maneuvering was necessary here, but it surely did White's cause no harm. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 25.Rxf6