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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
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| Jun-01-04 |
| AlexKearns: <kevin86> and <azaris>
Note that the main line (43 Rd8 Rxd8 44 Pxd8=B) does not lead to an instant mate because of 44...Bf7! Bxf7?? stalemate. White can still win after 44...Bf7! by, as someone previsouly pointed out, 45 Bf6+ Kg8 46 Bxf7+ and white's black bishop will pick up black's queen side pawns. Rather than 45 Bf6+ white could try this interesting variation, which allows black to queen a pawn in return for a beautiful mate. 45 Kd4 Bxd5 46 Kxd5 e3 47 Ke6 (it looks suicidal) e2 (if ...kg8, then 48 Bxa5 e2 49 Bxb4 and white still wins because the bishop is covering the e1 square) 48 Kf7 e1=Q 49 Bf6++ Black gets to queen his pawn but white mates. Overall, I think that <azaris>'s 43 Rf6 ultimately leads to a quicker mate than the more attractive 43 Rd8 variation. |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| masterwojtek: <PizzatheHut> In your line(43.Bf7), Black can also draw by: 43...Rxc7 44. Rd8 Rc3+ followed by checks with rook (the rook cant be captured on account of stalmate) |
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Jun-01-04
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| Sneaky: <<Until a rule change,which requires the promotion to be the same color man as the promoter,white could checkmate by promoting to a BLACK knight.>
huh?>
Kevin is referring to a horrible oversight in some published editions of the rules of chess, which specify that a pawn may be promoted to a rook, knight, bishop, or queen, but failed to mention the obvious fact that it must be of the same color as the player's pawn! I think FIDE has fixed this gaff, as I found this when I Googled the rules of chess: <6.6.4 PAWN promotion: On reaching the last rank, a pawn must be immediately exchanged, as part of the same move, for a queen, a rook, a bishop, or a knight of the same color as the pawn, at the player's choice and without taking into account the other pieces still remaining on the chessboard. This exchanging of a pawn is called 'promotion' and the action of the promoted piece is immediate.> |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| mack: Is 43. Kd4 also winning? |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| dac1990: Yay! I got this one! One of the few instances where promoting to a bishop wins. |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| mynameisrandy: I apologize if my comment bothered anyone. I just played a game with a similar situation about a week ago, so it was fresh in my mind. Hope I didn't offend anyone. |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| MoonlitKnight: <mynameisrandy> Well, I've seen worse bragging, but this definitely was not the easiest puzzle ever. Newcomers here tend to forget that those who are new to the game might be discouraged by such comments from more experienced players. I think the general feeling on chessgames.com is that bragging-like commenting on the puzzles are unwanted, although as a newcomer you couldn't know. |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| Jatayu: <mynameisrandy> no problem. your last comment was all class. |
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Jun-01-04
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| iron maiden: Also <mynameisrandy>, take absolutely nothing FerociousBeast says to heart. He is as uncivilized as his name suggests and, as an afterthought, only rated 1200. |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| filipecea: <What does everyone think about the idea of writing it down somewhere ie top of kibitz page(?): white to win move 41. Thoughts? > Yes, I do insist in this great idea! What do you think guys?? |
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Jun-01-04
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| patzer2: <Karlzen> Although the game solution is effective (43. Rd8 Rxd8 44. cxd8=B Bf7 45. Bf6+ Kg8 46. Bxf7+  ), I also like your idea of 43.Rd8 Rxd8 44.cxd8=N . However, with the Knight underpromotion I don't see a quick "hover mate" (whatever that is) or any other quick mate impending. Rather, play seems likely to continue with 44...Bd7 45. Nf7+ Kg8 46. Ne5+ Kf8 47. Nxd7+ Ke7 48. Nf6 with a very easy (but not particularly quick) endgame win for White. |
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| Jun-01-04 |
| drjimmy42: I know you guys talked about this already, but I don't understand the idea behind promoting to a BLACK knight? Why does the color matter? Does the other player get to use that piece? Would a black knight move differently than a white one? Please enlighten me. Thanks. |
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| Jun-02-04 |
| vangogh228: .
I think the CORRECT Black response was 43... Rb8. White is stuck. If White goes 44. Rxb8 it's a stalemate. If White takes 44. cxb8, regardless of the promotion, it's a stalemate. If White pushes the pawn 44. c8(Q,R,B,N), regardless of the promotion, Black simply takes the promoted piece and dares white to take back. White is hosed. Am I missing a better White response to 43... Rb8. ?
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| Jun-02-04 |
| Dillinger: <drjimmy> in the example, the king would capture any white piece promoted on b8, but can't capture a piece of his own color, resulting in discovered mate by the rook. Any black piece besides the knight could be used by the other player to either capture the rook or block the check, so the black knight is the only promotion which results in mate. |
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Jun-02-04
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| iron maiden: <vangogh228> 43...Rb8 loses to 44. Rxe8+! Rxe8 45. Be6! and the pawn promotes. |
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| Jun-02-04 |
| notsodeepthought: It also loses to 44 Bc6 R:d8 45 c:d8=N which forces the exchange of black's bishop with a trivial endgame for white. |
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| Jun-02-04 |
| AlexKearns: <vangogh228><iron maiden>
The best response to 4...Rb8 is (if you haven't read my earlier analysis) to remove the stalemate threat by 45 Bc6/Bb7 or even Ba8 threatening to take the rook or queen the pawn. <notsodeepthought>If then 45...Rxd8, not 46 c:d8=N but 46 c:d8=Q (the black king can now move to g8 so no stalemate). |
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| Jun-02-04 |
| karlzen: <masterwojtek>, 43.Bf7 Rxc7 44.Rd8 Rc3+ does not draw I'm afraid. Think about the e4-pawn! :) <patzer2>, sorry about that. :) I just tried to be funny. I meant to play the half-move Nf7# (the knight is hovering so g8 is still covered!). Still, promoting to a knight is slightly more accurate than the game. |
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| Jun-02-04 |
| notsodeepthought: <AlexKearns> Good point, of course, thanks. |
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| Jun-02-04 |
| chessfected: 43.....Rb8 44.Kd4! also wins. there is no stalemate as the e4 pawn can move. |
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| Jun-03-04 |
| MatrixManNe0: <kevin86>, when did this rule take place? Where can I find a rulebook on the net? |
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| Jun-03-04 |
| AlexKearns: <chessfected>44Kd4 Great move - much better than moving the Bishop. I considered it in a different variation (see earlier post) but not in the 43...Rb8 continuation. |
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| Apr-19-05 |
| soberknight: <kevin86> The idea of a White move producing a new Black piece occurs in circe chess problems. See my profile for a primitive example that I composed. |
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| Mar-16-09 |
| WhiteRook48: I winz! Beck away!
44. cxd8B is fantastic! |
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| Jul-09-09 |
| DarthStapler: Nice ending |
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